Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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All I hear in the pak news is about attacks on Hindus, Sikhs, Christian and ethnic attacks against Shia’s & Ahmedies.
Who is doing this and why.

What has happened to Jinnah’s secular vision of Pakistan.

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

are you purposefully not noting the attacks that are taking place on the majority sunnis as well, or general Pakistanis without any respect to their religion, sect, or race, or was that an oversight, because before engaging in a discussion one may want to understand the motives and whether the intent is to have a real discussion :) just sayin..

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Jinnahs secular vision was dead on arrival unfortunately...

And while there is much religious chauvinism in Pakistan, it thankfully not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

If the small scale polling on this forum is anything to go by, there are still many in Pakistan who are still in favor of Jinnah and his secular vision.

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

No attacks on muslim Pakistanis?

More & more lies, propaganda shamelessly spread by an indian. Why am I not surprised? I have seen more than my share of it. They do it so shamelessly. Every single one of them. Every single indian's manipulative ways strenthens belief that they are lucifier's agents only to exploit the rest of the world by spreading lies, fabrication, evil, propaganda. This thread is a prime example & a lesson for the Pakistanis who have been following all the bomb attacks in Pakistan over Pakistani muslims over the last good number of years.

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

anyways, I will proceed with the assumption that there was good intent.
Jinnah's version of Pakistan was opposed by the very people that then appealed to power mongers later on to start imposing dodgy laws with some religious tint to them...these very people that called Pakistan as Napakistan were the JI/JUI/JUP etc.

Military wanted to use these guys ideological offsprings for proxy wars, and then with full blessing and support of USA and KSA sent them to have a proxy war in Afghanistan, Zia made things worse by further appeasing the uber right wingers. war over these guys had nothing better to do, so lashkar e jhangvi and sipah e sahaba and sipah e muahmmad went after each other on ideological grounds the same way diff factions in afghanistan went after each other based in ethnic grounds. Later govts decided to support thugs in afghanistan to protect their own interests, and claimed that those thugs would atleast keep the place stable rather than what was seen with the warlords, which to be honest was kinda true but still very shortsighted.

it was all fine and dandy for power mongers in civilian and military garb throughout, while the influence of this seeped in society and got Pakistan in the mess it is in now.

people say cleanup starts with the terrorists blowing up people, I agree, but think that at the same time their godfathers in JI and JUI need to be shown the door and exiled to KSA that they so revere. additionally the leftovers of zia and aslam beg's ideological spawn in military needs to be booted.

The good thing is that aside from an active, loud and vocal small minority, people in general dont seem to buy into all this garbage but in general are pretty powerless and apathy and fear (which are interrelated) is high of speaking up.

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X2 - Thanks for your explanation.

Jinnah speeches seems to confirm that he was secular, yet today Pakistan is the opposite.
In todays Pakistan, there is a growing intolerance of any other religious beliefs or views.

If only Jinnah was alive for a bit longer..

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

hi

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and also MG

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

I don't know of anything else . but just this that Quaid-e-Azam was really QUAID-E-AZAM. people say to me that he was with congress , so what? He was when he thought that was necessary. But when he realizes that there is no way out except making Muslim League , he did. Yeh tou woh he baat ho gai k Junaid Jamshed aur Ali Haider ko agar main kahoun k they talk religious matters and people will say but bhool gai, yeh tou kaisay kaisay ganay gatay thay. Jin logoun nai sirf excuse paida karnay hotay hain, wo aisay he hotay hain.

Shame on government. When President said Pakistan Khappay, one of the party members, Zulfikar Mirza said that on murder of Benazir, I wanted Pakistan to break into pieces. Abhi in logoun ko bangladesh alag kar k chain nai aaya. and that Senator Adeel is always against Quaid . They are all so sick, kuch bacha tou saktay nai hain , sab tor dou ,,,,,, huh >>>>> agar itna he shouq hai Quaid per bolnay ka tou kam az kam Kashmir issue solve kar k dikhain aur Kashnir ko azad karain k jo in he ka hisa tha aur qabza ho gaya, Jinnah nai tou phir aik aisi zameen li jo totally english power main thi.. In say tou apni leader ka murderer he nai pakra ja raha. Waziristan per itnay hamlay ho rahay hain ....... chalo mana wahan terrorist hain tou kyun apni fauj kam par gai hai un sai larnay k liay ........ sirf in logoun ko itna pata hai k IMF say paisa lo aur unhain khula access do .

PS }} Kashmir issue, i think agar bharat aur pakistan donoun ko issues hain tou why don't they make it a separate state as Bangladesh, i believe ,upon this, the Kashmiris will be more happy, sick people (Indopak)qabza kar k baithay hain >>>>>>>> As for Quaid-e-Azam , first of all I thank Allah and then Jinnah that he foresaw the future and knew that Hindus will never change and that Pakistan is essential , especially when I see, whats happening to Muslims there , they have forgotten their religion , even then they are not safe , like SRK married hindu and at his home , they have Quran as well as Moorti kept side by side , khula shirk and still he got threats from Shiv Sena when released My Name Is Khan >>> Indira Gandhi openly said that we will attack them by culture , no one makes plans for future, not the government (any dams >>> no, sailaab ka paani zayah) , not the muslims at india (that their children are either away from religion or they won't know that which God they have to follow as in case of SRK) , not people (that clean water is a blessing >>> save it and leave it clean>>> what are we leaving for our children

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

The real Quaid-e-Azam

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

By the way, kisi kay ckehnay say kuch nai hota. jo Jinnah tha, wo tha. agar poochna he hai, tou us kai qareebi sathioun say poocho. agar un main say bhi koi jhoot bolay to yeh soch lai k wo bhi qabar main he paon latkai baitha hai.

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

Mohammed Ali Jinnah had secular views?.. :hmmm:

Maybe he did… but Pakistan was and still is an Islamic Republic theres is no room for secularism and there never will be.

The day i see Pakistan become a secular state is the day Pakistan is finished… i would rather see the gates of hell than a secular Pakistan.

And before i am slammed as areligous biggot let me tell you that there is no way my view is a minority one… the majority of Pakistani people especailly the few who still live and remmember the partition will back my viewpoint.

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M A Jinnah disowned his own daughter for marrying a Parsi.

A Secular person would never have done that!

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

^ precisecly

Pakistaaan Zindaaabaaad! :jhanda:

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

yeah a true Islamic Republic

where 140 members of MNAs/MPAs are having fake degrees
where is no law but Jungle`s law.

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

^ Whatever… :chai:

Even UK Mps have been proven to be corrupt so this is hardly the fault of the state being Islamic is it… :smack:

Damn Islamaphobia!

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Re: Jinnah - the forgotten father of the nation

Jinnah was basically a secular liberal who had studied British political history and practiced common law. For such a man the Muslim cause, which inescapably bound up with Islam, embraced nationalism and patriotism as well as the strict meaning of religion. He wanted to see Pakistan as an embodiment of dynamic and forward-looking Islam. Jinnah believed that Islam fosters, upholds and extols values such as freedom, equality, solidarity and social justice which may also be termed secular or humanistic; these, he repeatedly emphasized, constitute the bases of Pakistan's polity. In emphasizing the dynamic pursuit of these transient values of religion rather than its outward, static elements, Jinnah had placed himself in the mainstream of modernist approach that began with Shah Waliullah 1705-62), the first reformer in the sub-continent who broke away from the orthodoxy.

"In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims-Hindus, Christians and Parsis -- but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan." Quaid-i-Azam, Feb. 1948 ....addressing to the peoples of United State.

The founder of the nation, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah envisioned Pakistan as a modern democratic state to be run strictly on the basis of merit and where all citizens will be equal before the law. Jinnah's ideas about what the new state should be like were very clear as can be seen from his speeches and statements. He meant Pakistan to be a progressive state in which there would be scope neither for intolerance nor for obscurantism and whose highest aims would be expressed in the social, cultural and economic uplift of the masses.

We should not forget that the struggle for Pakistan was a secular campaign led by men of politics rather than religion. It was not the Ulema who began to organize for an independent Muslim state, but rather the most secularized classes. The background of the men who organized the campaign for Pakistan was not theology and Islamic law but politics and common law; not Deoband (the prominent seat of Islamic religious learning in India), but Cambridge and the Inns of Court. Jinnah and his lieutenants such as Liaqat Ali Khan won Pakistan in spite of the opposition by the so-called nationalist Ulema.

His vision about Pakistan was so cleared for a seculare state, thats why his idiolgy and visions was totaly rejected by Ulame Ikram that time.

peace

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Great post! :)

You seem to have gotten the hidden message in OP's first post.

I do not think any benefit of doubt be given to OP since it was well intended thread of misguiding and inciting readers.

Here is why:

Indians and Hindus always feel bad that somehow they lost the battle of the divide of subcontinent based on religion.

Right or wrong, it did happen. Tough.

They still cannot swallow their defeat and their Baapoo's fake tears 'gone in vane'.

So they found a new tactics to make people angry against the very idea which culminated the divide. ** The religious difference and need to practice religion freely as it was felt by common people.**

Yes, the religious scholars of that time were not agreeing with the divide based on their views which could have been correct or could have been wrong but no one can tell.

For common people at that time, living separately was the best option as they had seen the evil nature and slave mentality for British rulers of Hindu Baniyas

And these common people knew that if they continue to live in this combined regimen of oppressive people, they eventually lose their livelihood and being able to provide since most of lucrative jobs were going to boot licking hindus.

Hence they sided for Pakistan and MA Jinnah provided them this platform.

Interestingly enough, those religious people who opposed the very idea of division did realize their mistake and some moved to Pakistan and tried to establish what was their interpretation of the reason for Pakistan to be made.

No, MA Jinnah was not secular in the sense that he did not want islam to be the reason for Pakistan.

Jinnah was much better than what France, India or other so called countries try to pose them as secular and try to fool the world of their so called intolerance.

All Jinnah wanted a country which upholds the respect for every religion and belief and still be considered a country which was established on Islamic Idea.

What more proof we have that Indian posters on this BB have a negative and sinister agenda of making people doubt of their own identity and origin, so their ego which was crushed in 1947 and over 1000 years, feels satisfied?

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Since my question is related to this thread. Many Pakistanis now believe that the finding of Pakistan was a political experiment?

I hear this every now and than, because dispite the differences and grudge against each other. They do not see the future of Pakistan, because its being overrun-ed by their own politicians.

Since thats the case, today majority of Pakistan fails to believe in Jinnah's secular vision of Pakistan?

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Short & Detailed blow ....