Does the true meaning of jihad have any relevance to the current conflict with terrorists?
See, it’s the “bad” jihad that is the problem, and understanding what the “good” jihad means is more important for Osama and Co. than for Harvard graduates or the American public.
The true meaning of jihad sounds like a wonderful thing. Let’s teach the right people about it.
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 07, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 07, 2002).]
Another word for "struggle" is kampf as in Mein...
Understanding what Hitler and his supporters meant with this "struggle" would have been of no use to the millions of victims across the globe.
Confused Muslims should be the primary benficiaries in the movement to instruct the ignorant as to the meaning of jihad.
Storch beautiful. You are just learning about Islam. We live it. Our knowledge is not an issue, as we know all 5 different forms of jihad. You on the other hand a fixated on the one form prescribed and used by Al-Qaeda. I guess before you lecture us on our religion I suggest you read up on the organizations actively involved in Jihad-e-Akbar. I hope I don't have to explain what Jihad-e-Akbar is.
It is a pleasure to stand upon the shore, and to see ships tost upon the sea: a pleasure to stand in the window of a castle, and to see a battle and the adventures thereof below: but no pleasure is comparable to standing upon the vantage ground of truth . . . and to see the errors, and wanderings, and mists, and tempests, in the vale below.
My education on jihad is not the issue.
I know Islam is not inherently violent. And the true meaning of jihad sounds terrific.
What you know and what I've read recently doesn't matter.
What matters to potential victims is what terrorists understand to be jihad and how this understanding or misunderstanding motivates their actions.
So the lessons of its meaning is not lost on us. Its just that those lessons would do more good if directed at those who really need this education.
I would never lecture on any religion. I'm not that interested in any of 'em.
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 08, 2002).]
Storch
Why did you change your Icon? if you are not disciple of monkey god?
Hindian is indian word like Maharaja,Nabob ,used in English although has no latin origin or other european base .
To days headline reasd “MUSLIMS KILL ONE OF THE HOSTAGE IN PHILLIPINES”
Its people like you Storch who blame Muslims when it is convenient & when talking about the flourishing contribution of all knowledge,that made rennaisence in 1400 ,then you parse it into Malaysian ,Pakis,ani Indonesian ,Asian Iranian & Arab muslims.
I am a muslim & i never killed anybody next time i might sue you for defemation if you use JIhad & Muslim Interchangeably for Viloence & Terrorists
You give e,g, that Mein means struggle ,very good.. every body should know about it before spreading hatred against GERMANS .The result of holocaust wont change by it… BUT MANY GERMANS ARE STILL DISCRIMINATED BECAUSE OF PROPOGANDA OF JEWISH PEOPLE’s RASCIASM OF GERMANS IN REVERSE BY equating german race & language with Hitlers final solution which was & never is the German pplz doing!! :aaha:
YES IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW IN DEPTH & NOT THINK THAT WHAT IS DONE CANNOT DAMAGE FURTHER.
FOR FUTURE WE NEED TO LEARN RIGHT .
H
“One of the characteristics of healthy cultures is that they can poke fun at themselves.”
good idea.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
..
.but i don’t know why muslims here are bent upon degrading the monkey God or hanuman of Hindus…does Islam teach You that.
I mean muslims shud seriously start to rectify their own mistakes before degrading others’ beliefs.
[quote]
Originally posted by Semipresciousme:
** Storch
Why did you change your Icon? if you are not disciple of monkey god?
**
[/quote]
••Some glitch happened during one of my replies and it disappeared. I was at one time a disciple of the god Fat Albert (the icon was one of his apostles Rudy or Mushmouth). His wisdom was exceeded only by his girth.
[quote]
Its people like you Storch who blame Muslims when it is convenient
**
[/quote]
••It's clear you have misunderstood this post. Muslims are blamed for nothing in this post.
[quote]
I am a muslim & i never killed anybody next time i might sue you for defemation if you use JIhad & Muslim Interchangeably for Viloence & Terrorists
**
[/quote]
••Congratulations.
••Is that what I did?
[quote]
You give e,g, that Mein means struggle ,very good..
**
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••Actually, mein means mine. It is Kampf that means struggle. Don't worry about it.
[quote]
FOR FUTURE WE NEED TO LEARN RIGHT .
**
[/quote]
••The above statement was the point of this post. The wrong people are being "Learned Right". Fundo/terrorist Muslims
may need the refresher course in jihad.
While Americans have shown themselves to be open to learning about Islam and jihad with PBS documentaries, Harvard Commencement speeches, etc.,
those who wage a malicious and destructive struggle against us continue hearing only the deafening silence of tacit approval.
That my simple question regarding the relevance of instructing Americans, rather than Al Quaeda as to the the true meaning of jihad, makes you immeadiately paint me with the broad brush of "Muslim Hater". Shows that your consideration of the issue lacks reason, depth or any real relevance.
I'll restate my position:
In the effort to educate Americans re: jihad, would it not be quite useful to educate the small number of Muslims who wage a jihad that targets innocent people (remember: I know that this is not the real meaning and that they are not representative of Islam) about their misinterpretation of jihad?
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 08, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 08, 2002).]
Good idea. I too would like this Ziad charater to go to Al-Qaeda and teach them about Jihad. Though he would probably be decapitated on tape instead.
Isn't it ironic, that even after Storch's first post about the different aspects of Islam. You americans only stick to one version.
Storch you knowledge is not the issue. Neither is it of the muslim people. Your original post which I replied to, implied we don't know anything about our religion, which is just not true. I suggest you read up on Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their role in Jihad-e-Akbar. Time magazine from April would be a good starting place. You might find something you find shocking. Hamas funds a school for 200 women and girls and they don't have to wear the Hijab. Shocking isn't it?
It is a pleasure to stand upon the shore, and to see ships tost upon the sea: a pleasure to stand in the window of a castle, and to see a battle and the adventures thereof below: but no pleasure is comparable to standing upon the vantage ground of truth . . . and to see the errors, and wanderings, and mists, and tempests, in the vale below.
[quote]
Originally posted by CM:
**Isn't it ironic, that even after Storch's first post about the different aspects of Islam. You americans only stick to one version.
Storch you knowledge is not the issue. Neither is it of the muslim people. Your original post which I replied to, implied we don't know anything about our religion, which is just not true.
**
[/quote]
•I never implied anything of the sort. Secondly, your statement suggests that there is a collective "we" of Muslims that understands Islam and Jihad uniformly. Is this true?
[quote]
I suggest you read up on Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their role in Jihad-e-Akbar. Time magazine from April would be a good starting place. You might find something you find shocking. Hamas funds a school for 200 women and girls and they don't have to wear the Hijab. Shocking isn't it?
**
[/quote]
I Guess what I'm syaing ,CM, is that it understanding jihad should matter to me about as much as the significance of Baptism or First Communion to you. It's great that Hamas funds the school you refer to. But, does my new knowledge of it change the fact that Al Quaeda may be successful in another catasrophic attack on Americans?
[quote]
Originally posted by storch:
**My education on jihad is not the issue.
I know Islam is not inherently violent. And the true meaning of jihad sounds terrific.
[This message has been edited by storch (edited June 08, 2002).]**
[/quote]
All three abrahamic religions - Judaism, christianity & islam are based on VIOLENCE!
They EXTOL violence & hate for fellow humans in the name of the Divine and a place in Heaven for those killed and Killing in the name of the Creator!
[quote]
posted by CM:
"I suggest you read up on the organizations actively involved in Jihad-e-Akbar."
[/quote]
Why not tell us about these organizations since Jihad e Akber is the greatest of all jihads which by the way - means a struggle against one's nafs (egos, evil, etc).
**Have you ever heard any religious fatwa of a :
JIHAD against Poverty & ignorance?
Most scholars will tell you that this doesn't EXIST in the quran or sunnah! But does EXIST a Jihad against NON-BELIEVERS and promise of Paradise!**
Malick i had my suspicions but now i am sure...YOU don't know a single simple thing of Islam. Can't help u man because u don't want to be helped. But i would give u a sincere sugesstion...without going into religious details, one day just try to pray 5 prayers...and read Quran with translation...try to do what islam has told us without contradicting it...u'll know the difference urself.
But if u want to have tunnel view discussion, and contradicting islamic beliefs without any knowledge abt them. it is ofcourse ur choice.
lastly i have said it twice b4...but i'll say it again. there are 5 types of jihad and the reward for jihad-bil-saif is the lowest ( needless to say that the reward for it is also very great) but the reward for jihad-bil-nafs is the greatest.. Try to implement it in your life.
May Allah guide us all...guide us all to the path in which lies our salvation. Amen
Here we are talking about Jihad and instead of responding germainely the nick called 'enchanted' asks me to say the 5 namaz and read the quran! I mean - yaaar, this is the greatest jahaliyyat!
the greatest jihaliyat is that ppl respond without reading the whole post. it is a useless.
The three Abrahamic religions do not have a base of violence. The instructions from God for Jews to attack certain neighbors could have been an offensive defense to ensure the Jews survival at the time. Christianity does not ever make a violent injunction. Islam seems to also have restraints on war, with the primary focus on the pagans. The unbelievers were the enemies of Islam, first and foremost. The early actions of Muslims were analogous to the righteous Jews in their "jihad" against the idolators!
[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
The three Abrahamic religions **do not have a base of violence. The instructions from God for Jews to attack certain neighbors could have been an offensive defense to ensure the Jews survival at the time. Christianity does not ever make a violent injunction. Islam seems to also have restraints on war, with the primary focus on the pagans. The unbelievers were the enemies of Islam, first and foremost. The early actions of Muslims were analogous to the righteous Jews in their "jihad" against the idolators!**
[/quote]
Then why the bloody history of christianity? In neumerical terms, I think it is fair to state that people calling themselves christians have shed more blood, tortured more people, and generally created more mayhem than jews and muslims put togather. If you want I will bet you your other pair of last socks on that.
That is correct, but Christianity has at the very least evolved away from that. Islam, on ther other hand, has grown even more violent and fanatical. Why is this? Can Islam and modernity survie together? I see no evidence to suggest that Islam will ever reform itself to fit into the modern world. But I could be wrong. Actually, I hope I'm wrong.
i agree with Tomasso...the religions are NOT based on violence... they teach love and humanity, BUT u cannot blame the religion if their followers are not following it correctly.