JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Ofcourse PTI is not the same party as it was. Yes, there are indications that establishment is supporting PTI. Can you blame them? Can you not look at what has the government been up to?

It is kind of funny that no body gave Imran a chance as long as he stood on sidelines, talking about reforms in Pakistan. I think he realized that you cannot influence the system without getting your hands dirty.

My impression of what you said is that the party changed form good-to-bad. Why is it that people did not support him before if it was a 'good' party at that time? My opinion is that the system is built in a way that you cannot make an impression unless you play the 'game' and IK realized that. Could Zulfikar Bhutto or Nawaz Sharif be anywhere in political arena without establishment support? I don't think so. Even now you see so-called anti-establishment party PPP in bed with PML(Q).

As long as the romance with JI is concerned, the ideas have been very similar between both parties. Both ride on anti-corruption and anti-american sentiment. JI has huge public support and in a democratic system, you cannot really write them off as crazy mullahs and such.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

^ well said

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

[quote="kakaballi, post:39, topic:263489"]

Ofcourse PTI is not the same party as it was. Yes, there are indications that establishment is supporting PTI. Can you blame them? Can you not look at what has the government been up to?

It is kind of funny that no body gave Imran a chance as long as he stood on sidelines, talking about reforms in Pakistan. I think he realized that you cannot influence the system without getting your hands dirty. .....
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Alright as you admitting that there are some INDICATIONS that est.favoring IK we talk about it sometime latter. As you said that JI have HUGE public support( cant see myself that public) the party all time rejected from back indepdendece days ( oh lit. old dont need no go on what happend that) From Yahya took them to break League and he supported them from financialy to moraly but Mujeeb and Bhutto sweep them out latter ZIA with his all evil force try his best that JI somehow could win in so called no party ellection but sweep out again like a wall of sand right? Oh yeah they have powers to bring on street fundamentlist type of peoples and their big goons student federations peoles but nor normal peoples like them. Its so amazing how IK so blind to chose a party which have no stand. why no JUI? I mean if he turn into kinda relgious things.
What we need actually a revulution type of thing a change which could finish these white ants and blood sucking bugs but unfortunately we are again chosing same old path. Its not about IK if he become premier or president AS you said he waite for his chance but failed and chose a short cut Its about a THINK may be he is not but his PTI which he start might get more and more favor in future for a real change. All reveulations show a path in start give a think which lead towards final victory. Any how I am not seeing that changes we actually want or need and i am also not so confident that PTJI could win. IK again chose a wrong way riding on a horse which always end up on last.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

You see and you agree. We did not choose IK when he was alone. We did not care for IK as long as he was a lone sane voice. We get what we care for. Its not IK's fault, its ours. We go for chamak, dhamak and shor sharaba instead of sensible people.

You might not agree with JI's ideology but you do admit they have following and the followers think that PPP and MQM's followers are not 'normal people like them'. They cannot change this following into electoral success, is another story. As I said, JI and PTI have strong similar views about corruption and american presence here. The alliance is not about Islam, as far as I know. Funny thing is that it is Peoples Party that seems to have biggest issue over Imran's colorful past. If it was Islam, JI would have been the first ones to reject Imran. I don't know what is SO wrong about allying with JI. If it is about extremism then we have PPP and MQM are in alliance and thousands have died in Karachi since that happened. Killing a person for political reasons is as evil as killing a person for religious beliefs.

I have said before. The talk about 'revolution' and 'change' is electoral gimmicks from PTI. I don't believe he is going to be able to bring some kind of massive change. If he can somehow manage to bring down top level corruption by 20%, I'll be happy.

Bhutto came on shoulders of establishment. Altaf Hussain came on shoulders of establishment. Nawaz Sharif came on shoulders of establishment. Pakistanis supported all of them. It is not Imran Khan's fault. It is our fault.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

That's probably not what most young PTI enthusiasts want to hear, though. Stating this is an attempt to redirect PML-N votes - as Rangoli pointed out - is one thing, but suggesting an ideological alliance with JI would make many uncomfortable. At the very least it'll make liberal supporters question his positions on things like democracy and religious extremism. Is sharing platforms with groups like the LeT/SSP really necessary? We associate Machiavellian-style political pragmatism with Zardari, not Khan.

[QUOTE]
JI has huge public support and in a democratic system, you cannot really write them off as crazy mullahs and such.
[/QUOTE]

  1. Depends on your definition of crazy mullah. They were invaluable to Zia's Islamization. 2. I was always under the impression it's never had much electoral clout? Like around 5% of votes since the 1970s.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

As far as alliance with JI is concerned, whats the issue with that? Is alliance with JUI halal and with JI haram?

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

I highlighted two ideas, not fundamental ideology. 1. Resistance to American presence in Pakistan. 2. Anti-Corruption. PTI and JI agree on both.

If you connect JI to religious extremism, you also need to connect MQM and PPP to militancy as well. The difference is only the use of religion v/s ethnicity or linguistic divide to foster terrorism.

I didn't want to go into JI's electoral success thing. The issue is that their followers do not belong to one ethnicity, dialect speaking, tribe, caste or geographical group. They are very much diverse and Pakistani politics is based on one's caste, language, family and locality.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

A precise history of Pakistani Politics...

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

As far as the relationship of JI with militancy is concerned, I believe JUI has more closer relationship with taleban as compared to JI. And till recently they were sitting in the ‘moderate government’ ruling us at present.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Bhutto ka naam lena farz hay. I don't know what are you talking about? Rise of Bhutto till his hanging by mardood, never ever in media or in history had mentioned about estabilishment (army) support, In fact Bhutto was victim of army brutality. Yes N$ and Altaf are illegitimate progeny of mardood Zia-ul-Haq. Which is written in the history of Pakistan which can never ever be denied.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

I wonder which history of Pakistan you have been reading. Ibne-Batuta perhaps.

Daddy Ayub Khan ko bhol gai? Find me a history of Pakistan where Bhutto was not a close associate of Daddy and that is how he was established in politics.

He first job was Minister Water and Power under military dictator. Later was Minister commerce, Minister of communications and minister of Industry for same dictator. Dear boy later became foreign minister for same dictator. He even sided with army when Dhaka fell.

Now you would tell me that I was not born at that time and how could I know. Right?

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

You might not agree with JI's ideology but you do admit they have following and the followers think that PPP and MQM's followers are not 'normal people like them'. They cannot change this following into electoral success, is another story. As I said, JI and PTI have strong similar views about corruption and american presence here. The alliance is not about Islam, as far as I know. Funny thing is that it is Peoples Party that seems to have biggest issue over Imran's colorful past. If it was Islam, JI would have been the first ones to reject Imran. I don't know what is SO wrong about allying with JI. If it is about extremism then we have PPP and MQM are in alliance and thousands have died in Karachi since that happened. Killing a person for political reasons is as evil as killing a person for religious beliefs.
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@ Kaka

JI has always been doing character assassination of its rivals, by finding faults in their personal lives. For instance, in 1970s the JI targeted “un-Islamic life style” of Z.A. Bhutto. In public speeches and slogans in rallies; it called Bhutto “sharabi” and “za’ni” (buzzer and adulterer). However, Imran’s colorful life and his established love-child never bothered the JI. In the case of Bhutto, however, the JI went so below the dignity as to allege that his mother was a Hindu. When in 1994 the critic of Western culture and British aristocracy, Imran married a lady from British Jewish elitist back ground, it did not raise JI’s eyebrow.Well everyone do and get advantages which is in their favor and aginst rivals in poltical war.

Now the question is what is the problem with JI. JI inspired from militant islamic movement of egypt is in its structure a semi Facsist party, a so called care taker of religion and is always involved in violence and bloodshed and consider is a legitimate way to achieve the goals. Anyone who has studied in some public university /college in Pakistan knows the evil face of Islami Jamiat e Talba (student wing of JI) , IJT is involved in killing of students from karachi to Peshawer and infact they are brainwashed in such a way that they consider this bloodshed legitimate as it is helping them to maintain their occupation of university campuses

Recently one arrested militant who was involved on attacking Sri Lankan Team revelaed that one of the planner in attack belongs to Jamat e Islami and he gave logistic to attackers in Manssora. As usual Jamat e Islami denied that.. Just imagine if some of the other party had this allegation, what would be the response of IK then..he would had mentioned this 1 million time on media but at this point he is dead silent , atleast he never said that there should be an Judicial inquiry about alleged involvement of JI in terrorism, the same inquiry which IK demand for every other incident

History of JI/IJT is full of Dead bodies politics, blood shed, violence, torture and ironically IK cant see that , because in my opinion he has no knowledge about many thinks and when you are surrounded by ex- Ji guys then they prevent you to see that..MQM use the name of Mohajir and JI/IJT use the name of religion while both are violent and there is not much difference between them.. IK can see terrorism of MQM but somehow he cant see the past and present of JI/IJT

Whenever military operation is started against terrorists, JI start shouting "Apnay LOGON kay khilaf operation ho raha hay" Yes these terrorists can be people of JI but not ours. IF MQM terrozing karachi than JI doing it from Karachi to Fata. And if you still think that this alliacne could bring some change you better think yourself more.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

^ Please make up your mind.

Do you have issues with militancy? (cuz when I raised that, you moved on to establishment supporting JI)
Do you have issues with JI being pro-establishment? (cuz when I talked about that you go back to militancy)
Do you have issues with IK talking about change? (cuz when I talked about that you moved to another topic)

You might have issues with JI... I have lots of issues with JI too and share your concerns. I did not defend IK on either militancy or talking about 'change' or being supported by establishment. I have admitted those issues and I don't know why you keep going back to them.

I am just saying that if PTI and JI have common thoughts on certain issues, there is no harm in voicing them together. As of now, JI is a legitimate political party. They can have common platform with MQM, PML(N), PPP on "issues", just as PPP and PML(N) were 'allies' against Musharraf before and after last elections.

If PTI goes on like this and allies with PPP and turns back on the corruption issues, then a lot of members and voters would turn away. That's how democracy should work.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

^ Perhaps the issue many have is that the alliance isn't as benign and superficial as you've described. Why is it necessary to share platforms with LeT/JuD/SSP? What has endorsing hate speech gotten us so far? Giving them a veneer of legitimacy with mainstream voters is more than just political pandering, it's playing with fire.

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I didn't want to go into JI's electoral success thing. The issue is that their followers do not belong to one ethnicity, dialect speaking, tribe, caste or geographical group. They are very much diverse and Pakistani politics is based on one's caste, language, family and locality.
[/QUOTE]

  1. I brought up electoral power because you suggested they were hugely and democratically popular. Which makes it sound like PTI's alignment with them was inspired by mass sentiment.
  2. In order to move away from ethnic and dynastic politics, why must we embrace religious rhetoric that's inflammatory and regressive? That targets minorities? Is this is not divisive politics? From the frying pan into the fire. If this is his idea of 'enlightened Islam,' I'll pass.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Is Pakistan in a position to allow its leadership to fail again? I think not.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

My applogy if you get confused but i just tried to reply back on certain points you mentioned in your posts. Well I am happy you are admitting whats wrong, and thats wrong turning away a lot of others to say yes to IK.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Where were you when this all happened eh? He left that daddy during his peak of rule and went against him. Why you always forget this? He came to power not by daddy's support but the support of masses. Get your facts corrected.

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

:omg:

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

:omg:

Re: JI to PTI – ‘Good looking Jamaat-e-Islami’

Lahore: There are reports that the leadership of Jamaat-e-Islami has decided to give preference to N-League for possible electoral alliance while Muslim League – N has also assured Jamaat-e-Islami to run a combine election campaign in upcoming elections. According to sources, most of JI leaders have decided to make alliance with PML-N instead of PTI; as in case of alliance with PTI, JI cannot achieve political advantage while alliance with N-League will give them huge political gain. Final decision will be taken by JI’s ‘Majlis-e-Shoora’.

Daily Experess.

JI decides to ‘prefer’ an alliance with PML-N over PTI - ‘X’ Reports

intersting. does anyone one else know something more about this news? my comments its save real PTI and a lesson for IK.