jahaiz.. a story and a question.

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
1

This topic has been discussed in the general section earlier but I thought it was better suited for this section and because I was talking to someone and was reminded of a rather ugly situation…which lead me to a question..so here it is..

My mum’s cousin was average looking,a bit overweight and due to the mindset of our society not able to get a rishta. Finally a bloke, avg looking, average background, avg education etc proposed for her. They were engaged and then just a bit before the wedding he started making dowry demands. TV, VCR, Motorbike, etc etc. her dad was not very well off but the girl had a few elder sisters and 2 brothers who were doing all right. So her folks had to ask her siblings for some extra help, which was given. When I heard about it, I was a bit put off and voiced my concern that the guy was scum taking advantage of these people by making demands just a bit before the wedding, and if he could do something like that, would he not be trying to take advantage of people later on.

I was informed that I did not understand how much “badnaami” it would be for her folks if the wedding did not happen, and how no one else would approach her with a proposal since her engagement was broken. Additionally, that a single unmarried woman has no place in our society and to have a bad husband is better than having no husband etc etc.

I know that she went numerous times to her siblings and cousins houses asking for help since her husband would tell her to go. Numerous times he asked for help as well, but it was always as if he had a right to ask for the money. I had said then that to continue to give this guy handouts was just making the situation worse. I remember the second time I had met him, he had asked me to find a girl in US so he can come and get married and get his greencard.

Now, a decade later, after the family cut down on the frequent handouts that the guy sent his wife for, she has been almost completely cut away from her family, I dont really know what her married life has been like, but I assume it is no picnic.

The question is…was it worth it..
in hindsight would they have made the decision to go with the wedding seeing what they see now
and knowing what they know now.
unfortunately, I can not pose this question to her or her family…

what do you think?

2

hmmmmm...lets see....

First of all, thankx for sharing this rather private family dispute.

Your response to this lunatic's demands is not very different from mines and just like in your case, I would have been shot down by the elders in the family. The problem with the jahaiz in our culture is that its been passed on from generation to generation and no matter how liberal or openminded a family claims to be, they always look with a cross-eye at what the bride has brought with her.

We sound our disgust at dowry, but our elders are conformist. They like to avoid taking stand on issues which are eroding our society and yet have the nerve to condemn them also. We, as young, have the luxury to question the rituals our culture indulges in, but our parents don't merely because they don't want to be the outcast in a family. "Agar yeh hua to logo ko hum moon dhekaney key kabil nahi rahain gey.."

One of the biggest worry that eats our elders is the pondering of their every single step and how it effects the future marriage prospects in the family. Elders worry if a certain incident happened in the family, or if so-so from the family did something out of the non-conformity, no one will give or take rishtas in their respective family. As we all know, in desi system, words travel faster than the speed of light.

To answer you question, I don;t think I would disagree with your elder's decision because it is correct based on THEIR value system. Now if it was you who was making the decision, I would certainly not go off and marry your cousin to this guy.

Though our values are similar to our parents', they usually aren;t identical in every sense. I just hope we're changing things for the better!

3

Salaam

Fraudia jee

Jaisa ke Ghalib jee na kaha ke yeh to hamare barsoon poraane rasm-o-riwaaj hain, hum aur kuch karein na karein in fazooliyaat ko nahin chorrna chate.

Jaheiz lanut hai, yeh larki wale tab sochte hain jab woh dene wale hote hain, aur jab woh lake waloon ki hat pehente hain to sab kuch bhol jaate hain.

Mujhe jis cheez ne yeh post likhne pe majboor kiya hai woh Ghalib jee ka yeh fiqrah hai
"Agar yeh hua to logo ko munhn dhekaney key kabil nahi rahain gey". cus yeh mein sun chuki hoon, apne Ammi Abu se nahi, but close logo se, mein chand months se aik mangani torrne ki koshish kar rahi hoo, mangani torrne ki aik waja jahaiz bhi hai. Aur mujhe is baat ki parvah nahin ke log kiya sochein ge, aise situations mein apne log ziyadah bolte hain, so you just have to be strong, very strong!
Mere khayaal mein aap ki reshte daar aur mujh main yeh farq hai, ke mein apne paaon pe kharri hoon, mujhe sahare ki zaroorat nahin hai, so shohar or no shohar parvah hi nahin. Is ke saath saath main khud ke liye larr saqti hoon, jo ke is tarha ki situations mein bohut zaroori hota hai.

Doosre family ka strong hona bhi bohut barra benefit hai, log kiya kahein ge ka ziyadh khatrah nahin rehta.

Aap ka question ke 'was/is it worth it' mein khud se hazaaroon dafah pocha tha, her dafah NO, mein jawab milta hai, jo insaan aap ko saari umr Khawaar kare, aap ke ghar waloon ka tamasha bana de, jis ki wajah se aap apni nazaroon mein hi ghir jaein, jis mein ghairat naam ki koi cheez na ho, us ke saath zindagi gozaarne ne behtar hai, beshaq akele zindagi guzaaro, jahan qadam qadam pe mushkilaat hoon gi, magar izat to apne paas rakho.

W'salaam
Saba

[This message has been edited by sabah (edited April 29, 1999).]

4

Well, I guess almost everyone has been in situation that Mr. Fraudia has been. Not every girl in the family or extended family is ms. universe. there will be darker and shorter and fatter females. (not every male is good looking. but all of them believe that low aim is crime and some of them wait till 35+ for a good deal, that never comes. Irrationality of male expectations complicates the issue further. There are hazar reasons for this irrationality. Sometimes guy is bad looking but has a good job. He thinks he can get a good looking girl. Sometimes guy has bad job but is good looking and then insists on proper match. sometimes guy's friends or brothers are married to good looking women and peer pressure catches up. sometimes he has a pretty sister who feels that ugly girl won't 'suit' in the family and so on.)

Now what do we do if you are looking to find a rishta for such girl is a tough question. I think one key thing is not to get to eager. Don't throw her at the first guy that agrees unless you find it reasonable. No harm waiting. I donno about Pak. But in India I know girls who married at the age of 30 or 32 and are happy as far as I know.

One more possibility is to try to get a job for the girl. Everyone wants money and thus this enhances her chances of getting married (or be self reliant if she doesn't.)

The kind of families u have described show their attitude even in first meeting. Even if u have money to pay them, it never make sense to buy a deal.

But all the same, it is true that it plays on the nerve of family members. Particularly father of the girl thinks of that all the time, If he passes away without marrying her off, in very few cases other relatives do the duty in a proper way. So he tends to hurry up. And the other family members are too keen to get rid of the 'problem' and none takes girl's opinion in consideration.

Yaa... i know it is tough.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited April 29, 1999).]

5

Assalaamu ‘alaikum,

Yeh bohot afsos kee baathai hain. It’s greatly saddening to see the awkward situations people are often forced to face as a result of certain traditions. This is one of the weaknesses of culture. Some families have overcome these dilemmas by turning to religious guidance, while others are still holding onto old customs.

The whole fundamental of two people marrying is that they will be able to spend the rest of their lives happily together. However, there are too many people and families out there who are ‘self-centred’, in a manner of speaking, and do not take into consideration the feelings of others and the long-term consequences that may arise as a result. The material things in life are more valuable than another individuals’ happiness, and acquiring them due to a failed marriage, becomes an achievement. Two people wed for all the wrong reasons.

Islaam is a lot more just, and I ask why do we not turn to religion when it has the answers?
The characteristics of a good husband are as important as the characteristics of a good wife. As Kahmirigirl’s topic in the religious forum emphasised, the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wassallam said: “A woman is married for four reasons: for her wealth, for her lineage, for her beauty and for her (adherence to) religion. So marry one for her religion and you will be successful.” [Bukhaari]. But unfortunately many people have confused their priorities.

In Islaam, one is strongly encouraged to stand up for religion, particularly when another opinion or view contradicts it, even if it means disobeying the parents. However, there is also a hadeeth that says it is better to sometimes keep quite than to speak the truth if it will lead to disunity and fitnah amongst the Muslims. So the whole situation needs to be assessed. Shaikh Faarsi was once asked the question about whether it was permissible to disobey the parents when it came to marriage. His answer was, that if the person who your parents wish you to marry is religious and has good Islamic characteristics, then the parents should not be disobeyed. However, he said, if the other person is not practising Islaam and does not pray, then under such situations, it is permissible to go against the wishes of your parents, as it is better not to marry such a person.

My advise to anyone would be to do Istikhaara (in the way of the Sunnah) before making any decision and seek advice from an Islamic scholar, if possible, regarding such matters. I suppose access to scholars is also regionally dependant. But be aware of false scholars. Alhamdulillaah, we are fortunate here in the UK to have a renound scholar – Shaikh Suhaib Hasan ibn Abdul Ghafaar from Lahore – who we can get in touch with over the phone.

Fraudz bhai, it’s difficult to answer your question. All I can say is that the methodology with which the approach to the marriage and the marriage itself was conducted was not according to the Sunnah, and should therefore perhaps not have taken place. However, we can only make du’aa that the marriage turned out prosperous and worked out for the best for all invloved.

... And Allaah Knows Best

Wassallaam

6

The funny thing stemming from all this is the fact that dowry is mandatory on a man i.e. the mehar!!

A girl can bring with her, and pls. correct me if I am wrong 'cause it was a while ago since I read the figures, two goats!!?? (the figure is based based on prophet's time)

Somebody check me on this pls.

7

Ghalib jee meher aur jahez mein bohut farq hota hai. Meher Allah aur uske rasool ne farz kiya hai, aur jahez kis ne??

Meher mauf bhi ho jata hai, jabke jahez...

Meher chand so rupees bhi ho saqta hai, jabke....

Meher pe sirf aur sirf Aurat ke haq hota hai, jabke jahez pe sare dulha ke khaandaan ka.

Shari tor pe kitna meher lena/dena chahiye yeh to mujhe nahin maloom, lekin yeh chand so ropees se ziyadah nahin hai, is ke ba'd koi jitna munh khole us ka zameer.

Mujhe samajh nahin aati ke log haath de ker moseebat kion rokte hain, agar to larrki wale jahez de dein, to saari zindagi saas bahu ki jang hoti rahe, ke tum ne mera glass torr diya, mere kaprre kharaab ker diye, aur blah blah.

Aik sawal pooch saqti hoon, if you dont mind, agar aap mein se kisi larrke ke parents jahez lene ke liye kahein to???

W'salaam
Saba

8

hmmmm...lets see...

sabah:

I used the term "dowry" in place of "mehar" because from the weddings I have attended and the nikahnamas I have seen, instead of mehar, the term used is dowry.

You're ofcourse right about the abvious differences!

Now, about your question, lemme answer by putting up a question: What if the girl's parents want to give dowry, and a boat load of it?? Will it be a decorum to ask the girl to leave the dowry home because you;re against it?

By the way, a cult of youngsters are stepping away from this hideous practice and the number is growing.

[This message has been edited by ghalib (edited May 03, 1999).]

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Ghalib jee

Mard hazraat khud jahez se inkaar ker dein, to woh kehte hain na 'andha kiya mange do aankhein', is se ziyadah qabil-e-fahr baat kiya ho saqti hai kisi bhi larrki ke liye, ke uske hone wale shohar mein itni ghairat hai, ke woh apne pait ke liye doosaroon ki taraf nahin dekhta.

Main sirf apni baat ker saqti hoon, main jahez le ker nahin jaoon gi, us ki aik wajah yeh bhi hai, ke main yeh kabhi bhi nahin dekh sakoon ge ke mere parents ne itni mehnat se aur pyaar se mujhe kuch diya aur us ki beqadri ho rahi hai, aise mein tisari jang-e-azeem mere ghar se shuru ho jae gi.

Aur phir woh mard hi kiya jo biwi ka diya khae, aise insaan ki izat nahin ki ja saqti, aur jis ki izat na ker saqein us se shadi bhi nahin kerni chahiye.

Aap sahi keh rahe hain, aaj ke naujawaan barsoon poraani zanjeeroon se azaad hone ki koshish ker rahe hain, Allah hummein qamyaab kere, Amen

W'salaam
Saba

10

Sabah:

Nice analogies. Very nicely put except for one quote worth noting:

"Aur phir woh mard hi kiya jo biwi ka diya khae"

While this holds true when it comes to jahez, it can;t be generalized for every situation. What I mean to say here is that a women can be a provider or breadwinner of the house. Not feasible, but possible.

11

Ghalib jee sahi kaha aap ne, mein sirf jahez ke bare mein soch rahi thi.
Aaj jab aurat mard ke shana bashana chal rahi hai, to phir provider bhi ho saqti hai, magar yeh us ki khoshi ya farz hoga.

W'salaam
Saba

12

I really liked this topic because almost all of us here will deal with this at one time or another. Didn;t want it to fizzle out, yet!! :)

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Isn't a jehaiz the gift from a girls parents to the new couple? I didn't think it was mandatory, but rather a very nice custom, where when the girl is born, the parents start collecting nice things for her and her future husband to start their own home.

I always thought it was a logical thing to do, because as we know it can get quite expensive to furnish a home, and if the expenses are spread out over time, then the girl can go to her new home with lots of beautiful things, and not put major dents in anyone's pockets.

I also thought it was a sweet tradition, because often a girl will get things that her mother recieved in her jehaiz, and then pass them down to her daughters in the future.

In this story Mr. Fraudia has told us about, this sweet gift from parents to their daughter is cheapened by this guy making all sorts of crazy expectations.. and well, I have to be blunt, but what this guy did was bribe the family into taking their daughter off their hands. In my opinion, this family has really insulted their daughter by accepting this guys terms.

14

Yacoob..

As a gift .. may be okay.. but why only from the girl's side??

The problem is these days with jihaiz is the demands from the potential groom's side for things.... etc.

As for woman being the beadwinner, in Islam what the husband earns.. the wife has a right on it but not the other way around. It is not her obligation (faraz) to be the breadwinner, but contribute only if she wants to.

and by the way.. with the current Fashion trends of the 'oh so noble' new generation which is disregarding old traditions (and adopting new ones with dubious virtue) these old things collected either go out of fashion or have new sleeker and smaller replacements (as in case of appliances). SO it is a useless gesture.

[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited May 15, 1999).]

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i cant understand why ppl in pakistan or where ever cant understand that this jahez thing is not our culture its the indian culture we have assimilated our selves so much into the indian culture that we dont c past that into to our Muslim culture which claims jahez to be da biggest "lanut." Im not marrie yet but i think i would rather stay single then to be married to a guy and let him and his family treat me based on how much stuff i brought with me. everyone wants to be treated for who they are not how much "STUFF" they bring into the marriage

and mister GHALIB maher is not dowry maher is the money a woman recieves is the guy were to divorce her. it has not happened yet that if teh guy agree on maher or dpes not give hes been refused the "rishta" or been burned alive by his sasural!!!

16

Black Zero Mian:

Your last paragraph was extremely vague, to me atleast. Would you pls. explain what you meant by "old tradtions," "dubous virtues."

Just Curious! :)

Offdachain:

You didn't read the followng posting I had regarding using the word "mehar" and "dowry" interchangbly.

As for mehar being paid upon divorce only: Mehar must be paid as soon as possible. The money is to be kepy by the girl. No need to wait for the divorce.

[This message has been edited by ghalib (edited May 15, 1999).]