It's time we support Erdogan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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well news from the centre is 38 Turk troops have been martyred by asad forces this morning in an air raid. Don't know who is technically right or wrong but we pakies should support Turkey and this time out in the open, since Syria under asad is not our friend and asad is supposed to be India's friend. He never supported us, in fact he does not even know if there is a country named pakistan. Turkey on the other hand ruined its relation with india for us. So being neutral or diplomatic is not even an option now. If we can't support our friend in need, we can't and should not expect any support from them when we need them.

But i know​​ parhe likhy elite begairats sitting in foreign office very well, they will as usual advice Imran Khan to stay neutral and hence we will lose another friend as a result.

We need to stop being politically correct all the time. Allah ke wasty Kashmir par hamen support karo, but hum tumhen tumhary issues par support nhe karain gy because we want to stay neutral. Bunch of begairaat hypocrite people of this nation are....

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[quote=““Pakistani Prince””]
Bunch of begairaat hypocrite people of this nation are…
[/quote]

:rotfl:

There’s no friends of Pak… not China, not Iran, not UAE/KSA, not US, not India and so not Turkey either. How can there be when it’s all a political game? Ideally we would help out Turkey but that kinda Ummah doesn’t exist yet. Turkey can’t even do much for their Turkic brethren in China, nor did Pak protest against master China, what makes you think Pak will do something about Turkey’s current headache?
Erdoğan won’t be in power for much longer, he already lost Istanbul. Turkish people are getting tired of Syrian refugees, like lots of Pakistanis wanting to see Afghan refugees leave Pak and especially the secular, nationalistic Turks want to see the few million refugees leave their country sooner rather than later.
Erdoğan threatening to let refugees enter Europe is just the beginning, NATO/US is not interfering yet but who knows soon they will. Then you have Russia helping Asad, and altho he’s Alawi/Nusayri whom are kinda rejected by mainstream Shia, Iran supports him anyway. I’m sure loyalty of many Pak shias will be with Iran and Asad too. Middle East will continue to burn, I would suggest we support our weak imaan first because world is getting scarier each day.

:flower1:

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True that!

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Indeed good response but i can understand the topic starter also. We need to unite and at least we can give statements about our relation with Turkey on Media so they know like we are backing them.

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^ that's just words, unless Pak can actually back Turkey thru actions, this support is of no use to Turkey.
if I'm correct Pak and Turkey were thinking of allowing its citizens dual citizenship, whether or not that's a good idea or possible is a different issue but let's see what Imran Khan does.

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**There is huge difference between street boys having friendships and countries having friendships. When countries develop friendships, its always based on some mutual interestes, political, economical, ground realities type interests. Emotional feelings dont work here. They never follow 'a friend in need is a friend indeed' policy.

Erdogan himself, may be a good person. But what comes in his mind first? Of course Turkey!

Pakistan is economically weak and dependant country and we are not even a developed nation. We need support, money, relationships etc with so many nations.
I believe if someone is weak internally, they become weak externally, whether its a person or a nation. So, if its that much of concern, Pakistan should work on internal issues first to make itself strong enough. Pakistan should stop Iran first from recruiting shia militias from Paksitan to Syria and Iraq.

Our foreign office is working much better than previous years. Calling them bad names wont make any difference to Pakistan. Foreign offices usually dont work on the basis of 'one man show' or 'one man policy'. A lot of people, a lot of security and intelligence agencies get involve in making decisions. And I m sure they understand their job.

Is se behter foreign policy kia hogi k I m glad my country is not biased in terms of foreign policies towards any Muslim country in the world.**

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^ what a waste of life....this comment just reflects the defeated mindset of our nation (and ummah on a larger scale). Should not we stop criticising Muhammad Bin Salman for making ties with india and isreal because it is in KSA's interest ? why alot of awsss and owwws when saudi troops get training in india ? Our peeps need to understand that concept of nation state and interests associated with it never worked for us in the past and will never work for us in future as well. Because of this concept every muslim country has made its own "daid inch ki masjid" within its boundaries. They extend support to fellow Muslim countries only if they get something in return. This line of thinking made us muslims selfish, darpok n what not. The r@ndi rona of being financially weak would never get old even after 100 years and hence muslim countries will keep suffering one by one layer after layer at the hands of rich n powerful counties. Our sufferings wouldn't end if we don't give up making nation based strategies. We would not stop fighting each other if we don't give up nation-state thing.

And talking about erdongan, he did support Pakistan openly, he did express concerns over indian brutalities in the valley which made indo-turk relations sore. Indian curbs on malaysian palm oil imports which costed malaysia millions of dollars, is another price which Mahtir Muhammad is paying for speaking for us. Yet we don't stop our r@ndi rona of being financially weak, dependent n underdeveloped.

Its high time we the muslim countries behave like street boys. This may make us weak for some time but we will emerge stronger......... else get ready to be eaten alive one by one.

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[quote=““Pakistani Prince””]
well news from the centre is 38 Turk troops have been martyred by asad forces this morning in an air raid. Don’t know who is technically right or wrong but we pakies should support Turkey and this time out in the open, since Syria under asad is not our friend and asad is supposed to be India’s friend. He never supported us, in fact he does not even know if there is a country named pakistan. Turkey on the other hand ruined its relation with india for us. So being neutral or diplomatic is not even an option now. If we can’t support our friend in need, we can’t and should not expect any support from them when we need them.

But i know​​ parhe likhy elite begairats sitting in foreign office very well, they will as usual advice Imran Khan to stay neutral and hence we will lose another friend as a result.

We need to stop being politically correct all the time. Allah ke wasty Kashmir par hamen support karo, but hum tumhen tumhary issues par support nhe karain gy because we want to stay neutral. Bunch of begairaat hypocrite people of this nation are…
[/quote]

Turkey has been time tested friend of Pakistan for very long time. I don’t think any Pakistani disagrees as far as supporting Turkey diplomatically and economically. Turkey have..always been supportive of our stance on Kashmir.
With that said..should we support them militarily?? I don’t think so..we have shouldn’t be getting ourselves involved in someone else’s war in Syria. I.e Russia, US and Arab countries.

That is true! however you must also understand that..no Arab country been true friends of Pakistan. Even Saudi ∧ UAE. They all have vested business and trade interests in India..and they certainly don’t want to harm them. Which is why their mouth is shut on Kashmir!.
Which is why i support..true and independent foreign policy free of OIC influence. And we look out for our own interest first.

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Didn't Imran Khan decide not to attend the Kuala Lumpur Summit in dec because he didn't have permission from KSA and UAE? Because they claimed if Pak went ahead with the summit in Malaysia it would divide the "Ummah" and compete with the OIC? Iran was present, So was Turkey.
Pakistan isn't neutral, it does what KSA/UAE (lapdogs of the West and Israel) orders. We all know how KSA feels about Turkey's influence in the region as well as the whole murder of the the journalist in Saudi's embassy in Istanbul. Turkey or rather Erdoğan's power is going to suffer.

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^^There have been wide circulation of the news that Imran Khan didn't go due to pressure from Saudia and UAE..sad to say but it seems like there is some truth to it. Saudia and UAE have influenced in Pak because they have helped us financially.
So since beggars can't be choosers..seems we didn't have any choice. Khair..all in All..as i said..it's about Economic and trade interest at the end of the day.

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Muslim world is clearly being divided into 2 camps. On one side are the pro-US authoritarians - Saudi, UAE, Egypt (and Israel) . On the other hand are the imperfect Islamic democracies - Turkey, Malaysia, Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood movements in various countries. Qatar, though not a democracy, has chosen to side with the 2nd group and provides support to Muslim Brotherhood movements. India in spite of being a democracy is slowly being wooed into the pro-US camp (hence it's coziness with Saudi and UAE).
The pro-US side are usually the aggressors in the region as they try to thwart democratic challenges to their authoritarian rules.

What is Pakistan to do in this emerging conflict? Public sentiment of Pakistan is with the Islamic democrats but the establishment is beholden to the US and Saudi.

I think the best thing for Pakistan would be to slowly extricate itself from its obligations to the US and Saudi. Then it should stand aside and not actively join any camp though it can morally support the Islamic democracies from the sidelines.
It should just concentrate on building its own economy and democratic institutions and stay neutral in all conflicts.

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Word! I think we should stay out of conflicts..we simply can’t afford any. And must stay out of Syria situation..

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[quote=““Pakistani Prince””]

Its high time we the muslim countries behave like street boys. This may make us weak for some time but we will emerge stronger… else get ready to be eaten alive one by one.
[/quote]

**I am unable to understand that by not being warmonger, how come it makes people ‘defeated mindsets’ and less patriotic. How its relevant to patriotism.
Your opening post contradicts your post No. 7. Though your second post is much better and mature.
According to the opening post, a Muslim state (Pakistan) should support a Muslim state (Turkey) against a Muslim state (Syria). Yet you want peace and unity between Muslims according to your second post. No one is against unity between Muslims here. Everyone including ‘defeated mindsets’, want peace and unity between Muslims.

Always remember, ‘Muslman Muslman se jihad nae krta, fasad krta hai’. I m against being a reason of fasad and fitna.

When you get into a war/fight, then there is no right or wrong, there is only fight. And you can always decide to get into the war but getting out of it is never in your hands.
Syria has become a playground for the two big players, and involving Pakistan in it can never be a wise decision.
Lets hope you just wanted to support Erdogan by issuing statements and not by a military support as Erdogan did, then this statement from our foreign office should be enough for you.

https://www.dawnnews.tv/news/1121401

I dont know from where you get your facts, but Syria is a Sunni majority Muslim country. Doesnt matter the ruler is shia or not. And saying that Asad doesnt know if there is a country named Pakistan, is a false statement. You can google ‘PAF participation in Syria-Israel war 1973’ and ‘Abdul Sattar alvi 1974’.
So, Pakistan supported Muslim states when it was necessary and that too against Non-Muslims and not against Muslim states!

Speaking about Pakistan’s weak economy is not a r@ndi rona. Its the truth we all should be serious about. The situation of Pak’s current economy is worse than a beggar’s situation. Kbhi Qatar jate hain, kbhi UAE kbhi Saudia, lekin akarr phir bhi nae jati. Pehle ankh mila kr baat krne k qabil tou ho jao, ankhein nikalney ki baat baad mein kr lena :smack: Xtron said it well, beggars cant be choosers!

The most aggressive person in street fights is always the one jo sb se pehle apne daant turwa kr bhag jata hai, exactly what warmongers do, sb se pehle hawa bhi unki hi nikalti hai.
The day, warmongers will stop r@ndi rona of criticizing Pakistan for not being a part of unnecessary fights and conflicts, Pakistan will rise and see development.**

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