Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Well yeah, I mean it wasnt the Pak army that was raping and murdering their way through the country…
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
what pakistan will do if another 50 years it is not solved do you have an answer?
would army promise pakistani people it will be solved ? or using this issue
to stay in power? eve if it is soloved it may invent another problem to conitnue
justify its rule.
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
Well, thats true.. It will be up to the people... Although Im fairly certain that Kashmir isnt the sole reason for the Army being in Power..
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
No different from the risk pakistan runs if the provinces that want separation are allowed to vote on the question.
Kashmir is no longer a problem. The Pakistan army will just keep pushing it out as an issue for their own self preservation.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Just for the record, the military in Pakistan is not i power due to kashmire dispute, its due to the bad governece of previous governments.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
And what provinces are you refering to who want separation. You know what assuption does, right??? It makes an as* out of yourself… None of the four provinces wants separation, they might be demanding more control over funds from the central government, which is not in anyway be called asking for separation.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Off course not…I am not talking on behalf of Indian Govt. The problem is that people of Pakistan are under impression that a Kashmiri means ‘Muslim’, or Kashmir means ‘a land of Muslims’. It is not true.
Yes, I want to know why Kashmiris made fool of Pak soldiers in 1948 and in 1965?
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
That may be true, but I want to know why Indian soldiers are being made fools for the last 16 years?
Abdullah was either duped/promised a fiefdom in Kashmir. Once the curtain went up and the Indian Government usurped Kashmiri rights, that torrent of resentment rose up once again.
No matter how you slice it. Whether it is claiming all natives from 1947 (1940 is highly arbitrary), it is net loss for India. Lets analyze:
- 2 Choices for Kashmiris (India vs. Pakistan = Pakistan wins)
- 3 Choices for Kashmiris (India vs. Pakistan vs. Independence = Independence wins)
It is a zero-sum game for India. Hey you might come back and say that I am wrong and all Kashmiris will vote for India, then place your trust in the choice of the people.
During the time of partition, it was all Muslim majority areas going to constitute Pakistan. Oh, in case you would like to bring up the Bangladesh non-sequiter, let me add that till this day it is an independent Muslim nation, not brought back under the fold of British India. Bottom line is that Kashmir being the ONLY Muslim majority state of India should not be the case.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
what about the part of kashmir that pakistan gifted to china … whether its a no man (kashmiri) land …
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Glad to hear that you accept the main principles of my argument.
What about that area? Like you stated no residents. Bringing China into this matter to throw in a wrench will do no good, because per Shimla Agreement (and oft stated by Indian policy-makers to the present day) this is a Bi-lateral matter NOT a Tri-Lateral one.
Interesting to see that you bring up a relatively miniscule 5,180 Km of land ceded to China when 37,555 Km. in Aksai Chin was taken from you. Mind you, this portion of of the greater Hotan Districts does have inhabitants. Like I said the China problem is greater on your Indian side, once a referendum goes pro-Pakistan or Pro-Independence.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
In the first place why pakistan gifted part of kashmir (MINISCULE) to china. are there any kashmiris there,if they are there do you think they have a opinion.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
thanks for a nice description.
How can you explain following two contradictory statements…
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That may be true that Kashmiris made fool of Pak soldiers in 1948 and in 1965?
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Choices for Kashmiris (India vs. Pakistan = Pakistan wins)
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
why indian should trust the popular demand of kashmiris while pakistani army does not trust its own people selection of bad civilian elected govermant?
kashmiris may not make a wise choice that put the whole southasia in danger
of another bloodshed and refugees that flow in to pakistan . it is much better
to continue safe status quo.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
China under the British Colonial Boundaries was forced to accept the status quo until the British left South Asia. It naturally wanted to revert back to the traditional boundaries. Pakistan chose to deal with it diplomatically, whereas India lost it. India complains about Aksai Chin to this day (but not too loudly because they are dealing with a country that has beaten them).
There are no Kashmiris are in that piece of land that Pakistan ceded. You are using circular logic. This is inconsequential.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Sure. You believe that they are contradictory, but let me explain:
You conveniently forgot my comment about the Indian Army being made a fool of for the last 16 years. Does that help?
The generation of '48 or '65 is dead or will soon be dead. That is a memory that is long forgotten. This recent insurgency/discontentment weighs in more. But hey, I can be wrong: Put it to a referendum: Make it Pakistan vs. India. Let the Kashmiris decide.
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
why indian should trust the popular demand of kashmiris while pakistani army does not trust its own people selection of bad civilian elected govermant?
^
This is a straw man fallacy. Referedum for Kashmir is not dependent on the political systems of India or Pakistan. I challenge you to bring up any mention of Democracy in Pakistan or India in respect to the solution of the Kashmir issue. You not find it in the UN resolutions, Shimla Accords.
If think that Kashmiri will prefer Indian democracy over Pakistani dictatorship, then let them decide in a referendum. If your confident about this then do it.
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kashmiris may not make a wise choice that put the whole southasia in danger
of another bloodshed and refugees that flow in to pakistan . it is much better
to continue safe status quo.**
It is not up to you or me to decide whether Kashmiris will make the wise choice or not. I am not sure what state you are from in India, but during partition, the fate of that state was decided. Kashmir was/is/will be in limbo. Usurping rights domestically is one issue, but Kashmir is DISPUTED territory, therefore the settlement must be done through a referendum.
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
Okei, you cooked on that Kashmiris have forgotten the past and have fallen in love with Pakistan…No problem!
…Pakistan was sure of a popular revolt in Kashmir during Kargil…did it happen?
Do you think that Kashmiri means only Muslims?
Kashmiris making fool of Indian army…already 16 years but no result, why?
Yes…a refrendum…but Indian Govt can never agree to it in present circumstances. Time is over. Find out some other means!
Can you call it a ‘Freedom struggle’ in Kashmir? Do you find a single non-Muslim in the struggle? Why Jihadis attacked non-Muslims ethnic Kashmiris’ in this Freddom strugle?
Can religious cleansing be a part of freedom struggle?
Jihadis and Hurryat gives a call for Kashmir Band…every thing is closed, shops are closed…will Jihadis let any one live who defies the order.
This you call ‘freedom struggle’?
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
*Okei, you cooked on that Kashmiris have forgotten the past and have fallen in love with Pakistan....No problem! *
Not fallen in love. More like hating India. You asked about my contradictions, I explained the reality. Deal with it.
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....Pakistan was sure of a popular revolt in Kashmir during Kargil......did it happen?
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Care to prove that Pakistan was sure of a popular revolt? Do you have any credible sources backing up the claim (by credible, I mean non-South Asian..a major western news source)
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Do you think that Kashmiri means only Muslims?
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My knowledge far exceeds these inane question.
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Kashmiris making fool of Indian army.....already 16 years but no result, why?
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Because it is India vs. Pakistan. Not a power that India can actually match up to, like a China. Ipso facto declarations of brute force do not undercut the justification of a referendum, something that was agreed by both India and Pakistan.
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Yes...a refrendum...but Indian Govt can never agree to it in present circumstances. Time is over. Find out some other means!
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You seem to be getting emotional here. It is not about 'circumstances' and 'conditions' but rather it is about principles and laws.
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Can you call it a 'Freedom struggle' in Kashmir? Do you find a single non-Muslim in the struggle? Why Jihadis attacked non-Muslims ethnic Kashmiris' in this Freddom strugle?
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Where did I call it a freedom struggle? What are YOU talking about. Please do not assign statement to me when I have not said them. I am not affiliated with any of the above statements. My arguments are purely on a legal basis both under United Nations and Bilateral agreements such as Shimla.
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Can religious cleansing be a part of freedom struggle?
Jihadis and Hurryat gives a call for Kashmir Band....every thing is closed, shops are closed.......will Jihadis let any one live who defies the order.
This you call ‘freedom struggle’?**
Again, where did I call it a freedom struggle? I have not discussed jihadis or religious cleansing. It is an open and shut case: You do the referendum: You lose Kashmir. All of these arguments are excuses.
I will admit that if were a nationalistic Indian, I would make the same arguments, but if I were an ethical human being I would agree that the referendum is the core solution. The partition of India is not complete until the Kashmi issue is finalized.
Do carry on..
Re: It’s nice to hear good things said about India.
OKEI…If refrendum is the core issue…what steps Pakistan took in favor of a refrendum? Did Pakistan vacate the occupied territory as a prior condition to the refrendum? In 1951, 1952, 1953 or 1954???..Was India bound to wait forever till Pakistan vacates the occupied territory?
Ps, Thanks, at least I meet one Pak citizen who does not call it a freedom struggle (in Kashmir).
Re: It's nice to hear good things said about India.
OKEI...If refrendum is the core issue....what steps Pakistan took in favor of a refrendum? Did Pakistan vacate the occupied territory as a prior condition to the refrendum? In 1951, 1952, 1953 or 1954???......Was India bound to wait forever till Pakistan vacates the occupied territory?
Pakistan raised the issue in the UN after it was brought to the international body. Vacating the territory was a prior condition for both India and Pakistan. At the UN fora, India, much like what you are doing, began it's excuses and attempts to subvert the setup and logistic of this UN proposed referendum under that climate, Pakistan (or any sane nation) would not unilaterally withdraw. If India had stated an unequoivical 'yes' much like what you are avoiding then onus would have been on Pakistan. Look at the history: India took Kargil attempted to steal Siachin. Honestly, do you think that the actions of India were NOT agressive. If say today, Pakistan vacates Azad Kashmir, you think India will NOT move in and let Azad Kashmir stay on it's own. If you say yes then I have nothing more to say to you.
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Ps, Thanks, at least I meet one Pak citizen who does not call it a freedom struggle (in Kashmir).**
Your welcome. I am not a Pak citizen though. I can see you defense of Indian policies but like I said it does not constitute the right cause.