first the news:
an indonesian clerk is being probed for marrying a 12-year old.
the problem is not that he is paedophile. there are pedophiles in every country and every society. the problem is that there is probably no outrage in the society as a whole. and that is not the only case. many cases like those happen in pakistan and no one objects. majority of the people dont condemn them. especially the clerks, who think that once the girl has reached puberty, she should be married.
its a shame.
Re: its more a religious issue to me
^ indonesia says 16 years, some other country says 18, some other 21....
on what basis do they come up with this age????
atleast islam has a more reasonable and logical ruling on when a girl shud be married....
shame on followers of man-made flawed laws....
atleast islam has a more reasonable and logical ruling on when a girl shud be married....
.
so reaching puberty is a reasonable age for one to get married?
^ indonesia says 16 years, some other country says 18, some other 21.... on what basis do they come up with this age????
atleast islam has a more reasonable and logical ruling on when a girl shud be married....
shame on followers of man-made flawed laws....
What age you got married?
Re: its more a religious issue to me
^ LOL!!
Aside from armughal's lament and his own personal contradictive state of affairs, lets analyze this.
There's more to the argument than "Has she gotten her period yet?".
There is a vast difference between stating that puberty is a minimal requirement for marriage, vs. claiming it as the only requirement. In 500 A.D. , what, really, did a post-pubertal female have between her virgin state and that of being in a sound marriage? Was the sheep-grazing getting in her way? Clearly, in ancient society, east or west, there weren't universities, job interviews, etc.
Society has changed, and with it, so have social customs. What we as muslims should truly be concerned with in this case isn't "Well if it was good enough for Aisha (RA), then it should be good enough for any girl today". We should be concerned with whether there was any financial bribery involved, which may have burdened the family to essentially give away their daughter in order to financially survive in today's downward spirally global economy? And don't say it doesn't happen - in fact, financial problems are a big reason behind child marriage today. Not the idea of practicing "sunnah" as some moral perverts will have you believe. We also need to question why this little girl should not have been schooled first before being married off, as there is tremendous weight in the argument that an educated mother begets a more successful and sensible set of children. And after all, a religious leader should have the desire to be with a more educated woman, as his intellectual thirst is probably so demanding (*scoffs at the gaffe).
Why aren't these issues important to us? Why are armughals of today hell bent on excusing such behavior that only inhibits women from progressing and educating themselves, from experiencing the world a little more so that they can raise a better family and oh here it comes again, actually satisfy their own existence a little by experiencing the world and developing themselves intellectually and financially and emotionally before committing themselves in a relationship. Let me tell you why. Because armughals of the world are too insecure to allow women to achieve this goal , because it only makes it more easier to dump the very people who have a vested interest in keeping child marriages an alive and thriving business.
Re: its more a religious issue to me
^ in western countries age limit is 18 , how many women can achieve their career goals by that age ?
unless offcourse its flipping burgers at Mcdonalds , which is the 21st century equivalent of grazing sheep
no offence to those who have blue-collar jobs , plz fogive me if this offends you]
[QUOTE]
shame on followers of man-made flawed laws....
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter how much the times have changed. If its allowed, its allowed, you cannot change religion.
The only thing that could be considered is the willingness of the girl to take on the cleric as a Husband. However, if she wants it, then there is no law to stop it.
yes you can not change religion, and that is why most of the people following religion are just like sheep; they can not think, and dont want to think, why we are following blindly what someone did centuries ago. it might not be an accident, then, that prophets were called shepherds. what could be a better analogy than that? there is a positive relationship between a person’s IQ and a person’s religiosity. thinking person would not follow anything blindly.
people want to follow the prophet in this respect. why dont they follow him in the thirteen marriage thing too? that’s a sunnah, innit?
the thing is that everyone comes up with some kind of religious justification when one commits something. that is probably the easiest alibi one can take.
you know i doubt that a girl at that age is even aware of what consent is, let alone know what consent for marriage is. she is at her playing age. I bet you wont let your daughter choose a husband at that age. a girl at that age probably knows that marriage is something with all the music and stuff. they dont know what it means? how do you think she will cope with it when a person of her father’s age comes to her and tries to tear apart her clothes and tries to have sex with her on the very first night.
yes you can not change religion, and that is why most of the people following religion are just like sheep; they can not think, and dont want to think, why we are following blindly what someone did centuries ago. it might not be an accident, then, that prophets were called shepherds. what could be a better analogy than that? there is a positive relationship between a person's IQ and a person's religiosity. thinking person would not follow anything blindly. people want to follow the prophet in this respect. why dont they follow him in the thirteen marriage thing too? that's a sunnah, innit? the thing is that everyone comes up with some kind of religious justification when one commits something. that is probably the easiest alibi one can take.
you know i doubt that a girl at that age is even aware of what consent is, let alone know what consent for marriage is. she is at her playing age. I bet you wont let your daughter choose a husband at that age. a girl at that age probably knows that marriage is something with all the music and stuff. they dont know what it means? how do you think she will cope with it when a person of her father's age comes to her and tries to tear apart her clothes and tries to have sex with her on the very first night.
There isn't a need for thinking when Allah makes something clear, there is thinking involved when it comes to implementing an order of Allah.
The Prophets pbut brought those orders down, and those orders do not change , ever. Thats how you are tested, thats what life is, tests which will determine your hereafter for you.
Girls today are getting pregnant at those ages, and you're worried about her not being aware of what marriage is?
Like I said, her consent is important, I know of many cases where girls have willingly married on their own. Just because western girls are into barbie dolls and watching high school musicals, doesn't meant there aren't girls half way across the world who grow up being more mature and responsible, and if they wish to get married, then who is to stop them?
Sorry to say Das Reich I am afraid thou art wrong this time…
check it out for your self the age of consent in these United States:
**STATEAGEAlabama16 Alaska16 Arizona18 Arkansas16
California****18 ****
Colorado15
Connecticut15
D.C.16 ****
Delaware16 Florida16/18 (bill pending)****
Georgia16
Hawaii14
Idaho****14
Illinois16/17**** Indiana16 Iowa18 Kansas16 Kentucky16 - [1]Louisiana17 Maine16 Maryland16 Massachusetts16/18 Michigan16 Minnesota16 Mississippi16 - [2]Missouri17 Montana16 Nebraska16 Nevada16 New Hampshire16/18 New Jersey16/18 New Mexico17New York17 North Carolina16 North Dakota18 Ohio16 Oklahoma16 Oregon18 Pennsylvania16 Rhode Island16
South Carolina14/16
South Dakota16
Tennessee18
Texas17
Utah16/18
Vermont****16
Virginia15****
Washington16
West Virginia16
Wisconsin18
Wyoming16
Puerto Rico****18**
FOOTNOTES:
[1]Age 16 if the man is 21 or older.
[2]If the female is over 12, the status applies only to virgins.
…How do Ya Like THEM SHEEP…
There isn't a need for thinking when Allah makes something clear, there is thinking involved when it comes to implementing an order of Allah.
The Prophets pbut brought those orders down, and those orders do not change , ever. Thats how you are tested, thats what life is, tests which will determine your hereafter for you.
Girls today are getting pregnant at those ages, and you're worried about her not being aware of what marriage is?
Like I said, her consent is important, I know of many cases where girls have willingly married on their own. Just because western girls are into barbie dolls and watching high school musicals, doesn't meant there aren't girls half way across the world who grow up being more mature and responsible, and if they wish to get married, then who is to stop them?
you live in a cave or stone age or what?
when did Allah say that a girl has to get married when she reaches puberty. and i refused to accept something by a God who does not really have an idea when a woman should get married. a girl getting pregnant does not mean that she knows what marriage is. what is wrong with you.
what kind of maturity do you talk of at the age of 8,9 or 12. and ,pray, do tell me in which country do women get so mature. if a woman gets pregnant at 12, thats because she is immature, not mature.
i bet you would like to marry a 2 year old girl because when you asked her to marry, she said yes. because that was the only word she had learnt.
Yes I live in a cave, the wifi connection here is great, must be the hard granite walls! 
I think God has a better idea of what his creation is and is not capable of. I know plenty of women who had gotten married early, had kids, and were all sane and mature at the time. Just because people are confined to a certain location, doesn’t mean what they grow up with or what their society promotes as culture is correct it doesn’t have to be.
Yes I like to marry 2 year olds in my cave 
Very mature comment.
Re: its more a religious issue to me
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Re: its more a religious issue to me
18 may be an arbitrary age to you, but the age allows a woman to complete high school, at least, before settling down. FYI, as most Pakistanis living abroad in the United States are of stout education, it does seem inconceivable that a person with a high school education could even get a job aside from flipping burgers. Many women have jobs in corporate America where they are making 50,000+ with a high school degree. Its called working your way up. These women take secretarial jobs in firms or offices, and eventually move up in promotions, learning the ropes as they go and doing vocational coursework as necessary on the side - a couple of seminars, certification X and Y, and it allows them to be earning 80,000 easily by the time they are in their 30's or 40's. For a single woman, that's not too shabby an income, and as many of these women do get married, coupling it with their husband's income allows them to sustain a household easily (not taking into account the blind greedy spending that American families have been engaging in lately).
I don't kid you when I say this. Corporate America has got lots of such jobs, being worked by people with a high school degree or Associate's at best. So, is it feasible to get married at 18? Yes, I think it is.
Also, you fail to take into account the difference between a 12 year old girl and an 18 year old girl. Their bodies are different. Their states of mind are different.
True, in some countries, still to this day women live as their ancestors lived. Women get married at a younger age in these countries because they're most likely not going to school, they're most likely not interviewing for jobs and are probably doing labor work, which doesn't require degrees or studying. Even in these situations, a female's consent is of utmost importance.
What I want to know is why do older men choose 12 year old brides in these circumstances, when they could very well choose a woman closer to their age? One must question their intentions. And one must question the legitimacy of the girl's consent. Was this 12 year old truly understanding what marriage entails? Did anyone discuss sexual health with her? Did anyone discuss how babies are churned out? You'd be amazed at how easily and without remorse people fling their kids into marriages, and these girls are utterly traumatized on their wedding nights.
Now we can all talk about sunnah and what the Quran says, but remember, puberty is a minimal requirement for marriage, not the ONLY requirement. And certainly 100% of the people here will never throw their 12 year olds into marriages, no matter how sincerely they defend this mullah's behavior.
Which is why so many of you are such hypocrites and why our civilization is suffering on account of your ignorance.
Re: its more a religious issue to me
^ pcg, if u did not mature even at the age at which u r, doesnt mean that other girls r the same....
u and i wud never throw our 12 year old daughter into marriages, and be assured no other parents will do so either --- unless they r sure about what they r doing....
Re: its more a religious issue to me
^^
So you mean to say that you would throw your daughter into marriage at the ripe age of 12. Please confirm. an yes or no answer would suffice. Not a long sermon.
People are very sure what they are doing when they throw their daughters to marriage. What about the girl. Is she sure about what marriage is all about. It helps to think sometime with one's own brain and not just blindly support any idiot.
18 may be an arbitrary age to you, but the age allows a woman to complete high school, at least, before settling down. FYI, as most Pakistanis living abroad in the United States are of stout education, it does seem inconceivable that a person with a high school education could even get a job aside from flipping burgers. Many women have jobs in corporate America where they are making 50,000+ with a high school degree. Its called working your way up. These women take secretarial jobs in firms or offices, and eventually move up in promotions, learning the ropes as they go and doing vocational coursework as necessary on the side - a couple of seminars, certification X and Y, and it allows them to be earning 80,000 easily by the time they are in their 30's or 40's. For a single woman, that's not too shabby an income, and as many of these women do get married, coupling it with their husband's income allows them to sustain a household easily (not taking into account the blind greedy spending that American families have been engaging in lately).
........
What I want to know is why do older men choose 12 year old brides in these circumstances, when they could very well choose a woman closer to their age? One must question their intentions. And one must question the legitimacy of the girl's consent. Was this 12 year old truly understanding what marriage entails? Did anyone discuss sexual health with her? Did anyone discuss how babies are churned out? You'd be amazed at how easily and without remorse people fling their kids into marriages, and these girls are utterly traumatized on their wedding nights.
Now we can all talk about sunnah and what the Quran says, but remember, puberty is a minimal requirement for marriage, not the ONLY requirement. And certainly 100% of the people here will never throw their 12 year olds into marriages, no matter how sincerely they defend this mullah's behavior.
Which is why so many of you are such hypocrites and why our civilization is suffering on account of your ignorance.
Could'nt agree more !!!
Yes, hypocrite for believing in Allah. Mullah PCG has spoken :k:
I really liked that fairytale of the working american woman 