Italy seizes Alleged Pakistani Al Qaeda members

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Howsoever Musharraf may try to gain some respectability in cooperating as ally against terrorism, such incidents would keep haunting pakistan in the near future : -

Italian Police Arrest Pakistani Al Qaeda Suspects
Thu Sep 12, 6:53 AM ET

PALERMO, Italy (Reuters) - Italian police, working with U.S. naval intelligence, have arrested 15 Pakistanis they believe to be members of Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network, police officials said on Thursday.

“We are certain that these people are part of a terrorist organization, and we are almost certain that that organization is al Qaeda,” Santi Giuffre, chief of police for the Sicilian province of Caltanissetta, told a news conference.

“We have found interesting documents that would prove the accusations,” he said.

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The Title of your thread claims these are 'Al Keeda' members. In fact, they are suspects. Shouldn't you wait for proof before making such statements? FYI, there have been thousands of muslims detained since Sep 11 and then released without charge on lack of evidence.

I think you shot your load a bit too quickly.

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Dude, he's an Indian

They love to bake whatever comes in their mind.

Saala, baat karta hai. Watch terrorism in your own country, dhir. Kalam can't even look after people of his own community

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *
The Title of your thread claims these are 'Al Keeda' members. In fact, they are suspects. Shouldn't you wait for proof before making such statements?
[/QUOTE]

Judge, what else can you expect from people that blame the burning of Muslims on aliens and the Monkey man on ISI :)

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We are certain that these people are part of a terrorist organization, and we are almost certain that that organization is al Qaeda"
Santi Giuffre, chief of police for the Sicilian province of Caltanissetta

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/12/attack/main521765.shtml

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Islamabad Strongly Protests To Italy

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Friday dismissed reports the individuals detained in Sicily on charges of terrorism are Pakistani nationals and conveyed its concern to the Italian government for making allegations without investigating the matter.

“Claims that the detained individuals are Pakistani nationals and are linked with al-Qaeda are unfortunate and premature,” a Foreign Office spokesman said here in a statement.

Some newspapers carried reports on Friday about the arrest of 15 Pakistanis in Sicily, Italy, on charges of terrorism. The spokesman, while giving “factual position”, said the Italian Interior Ministry approached Pakistan’s Embassy in Rome on August 20 to verify travel documents and identity cards of 15 individuals. “On 10 September 2002, after confirmation from the authorities concerned in Pakistan, the Embassy informed the Italian Ministry of Interior that the documents were false and had not been issued by the Government of Pakistan,” the spokesman said. The government requested the Italian Ministry for consular access to determine the nationality of the individuals in custody which, he said, has not been provided so far.

**“The Embassy of Pakistan in Rome has conveyed Pakistan’s concerns to the Italian government for making allegations before thoroughly investigating the matter and despite the fact that the Government of Pakistan had informed them that the documents carried by the individuals were false,” **the spokesman said. A similar demarche was made to the Italian Embassy in Islamabad, he added.

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Heh, poor dhir… Maybe he should resort to pasting intelligence reports published in India, disguised to be American, LOL

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False documents!!!
Do you know how desis travel to Europe and US, by using false documents and false documents usually means passports not issued by the issueing authority as mentioned in the passports but by some agent, possibly also pakistani in Europe itself when they land there.
So you people r happy that their documents are false. Anyway it should be sad for you to know that countries relate terrorists to Pakistanis so easily at the drop of a hat now-a-days. That is what I mean when I said in the initial post that Pakistan is going to have a bad name in the days to come.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
False documents!!!
Do you know how desis travel to Europe and US, by using false documents and false documents usually means passports not issued by the issueing authority as mentioned in the passports but by some agent, possibly also pakistani in Europe itself when they land there.
So you people r happy that their documents are false. Anyway it should be sad for you to know that countries relate terrorists to Pakistanis so easily at the drop of a hat now-a-days. That is what I mean when I said in the initial post that Pakistan is going to have a bad name in the days to come.
[/QUOTE]

You've completely changed your tune by false documents, which is what I came up with, not you!

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No matter what bhookay we will still earn the admiration of the world by arresting the most wanted terrorists, and we will still have the best performing stock market, we will still get the Gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, we will still have food while you bhookas strain to grab attention somehow. And by the way Indians are associated with every fraudulent, lying, scheming, cheating occurence out there, so I am sure the goras whos feet every Indian seems eager to lick are not about to let your "Indo-european" selves into thier homes just yet.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
False documents!!!
Do you know how desis travel to Europe and US, by using false documents and false documents usually means passports not issued by the issueing authority as mentioned in the passports but by some agent, possibly also pakistani in Europe itself when they land there.
So you people r happy that their documents are false. Anyway it should be sad for you to know that countries relate terrorists to Pakistanis so easily at the drop of a hat now-a-days. That is what I mean when I said in the initial post that Pakistan is going to have a bad name in the days to come.
[/QUOTE]

dont Indians do that? Indians are way ahead in making false documents... There was a documentary on BBC which showed an Indian boy making fake US visas, which were pretty good actually...

As for terrorists, do you see our name in the terrorist list? Besides, you are bigger terrorists... You proved that numerous times and most recently proved that in Gujrat... The difference b/w ur terrorists and ours is that ours hide behind masks and make a few isolated attacks and then run away... Yours pile up in mobs, burn and bake Muslims alive, and your Government gives them ample support...

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Talibaan took over Peshawer

any guess who is reporting ?? ;)

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by BAYWAQOOF: *
**Talibaan took over Peshawer*

any guess who is reporting ?? ;)
[/QUOTE]

Already did... I remember watching it on Zee-News ;)

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Pakistanis Held In Italy Not Terrorists

**KARACHI, Sept 23: The 15 Pakistanis arrested in Italy for being “terrorists” have nothing to do with Al Qaeda or any religious organization and are seamen working with a Romanian shipping company, according to information available to Dawn. **

They fell victim to a dispute that was between the ship’s Romanian captain and the Romanian company which owned it, but the Italian police’s racism landed them in trouble.

They are from the Gujrat, Vehari and Lahore areas and are part of the ship Sara’s 21-man crew, the other six crew being Romanian, including its captain, Pop Andrian. The ship is owned by Nova Spirit, a Romanian company. Fourteen of the Pakistani seamen were taken as crew on July 17 this year, while one, Nasir Khan, had been with the ship for nearly two years.

The ship had been carrying cargo, including steel, to various countries and had been on sea for 20 days. **From Spain, the ship went to Morocco and then was headed for Tunisia when a dispute over salaries cropped up between the Romanian crew and the Romanian owners - the Pakistanis had nothing to do with the row. **

Captain Andrian warned the Romanian company that he would have the ship attached through the International Transport Federation unless the salary dispute was settled. (Based in London, the ITF is an internationally recognized organization for the settlement of claims involving ship crews.)

Instead of going to Tunisia, the captain took the ship to Malta but was denied entry by the Maltese authorities. Captain Andrian then took the ship to the Italian waters, called the Italian coastguards but misreported the incident by saying that the Romanian crew had threatened his life. He did not blame any Pakistanis.

The Italian coastguards took the ship to Gela, a Sicilian port, where the Sicily Harbour Authority Police performed all investigations on board the ship, checked the documents of all crew, including Pakistanis, and found nothing wrong. However, they did realize that there was a dispute over salaries between the owners and the Romanian crew.

The Sicily harbour authorities contacted the ITF, which brought the dispute to an end. During this process, the Pakistanis had been shifted from the ship to a Red Cross camp, where their passports and others documents were found in order. They were helped by a Red Cross woman lawyer, Anna Maria, in this regard.

**The FBI also grilled the Pakistani seamen for five days, during which they were isolated from each other. Even the Americans could find nothing wrong with them. **

After paying all port charges, the ship was allowed to sail by the Italian authorities, but it could not sail because the Pakistanis were not on board.

On Sept 12, the Italian police called a press conference and, to earn a name for themselves, claimed without any basis that the Pakistanis belonged to Al Qaeda. The police alleged that the Pakistanis had received certain secret messages and that they were heading for Libya. Actually, it was the ship that was to go to Libya because it had a cargo of steel, part of which was to be offloaded at Tunis and part in Tripoli, a Libyan port.

The fathers and brothers of the Pakistanis held in Italy have signed affidavits declaring that their sons and brothers had nothing to do with any religious organization, that they were legally employed by the Romanian shipping company, and all had genuine documents when the Italian police arrested them.

They regretted that the Pakistan embassy, instead of looking after the interests of their nationals, had merely declared that they were not Pakistan nationals. If the Italian police had sent the passports to the embassy, or some embassy official had bothered to visit them, the embassy would have found that they were bona fide Pakistanis carrying authorized documents.

Their misfortunes, they said, was that they happened to be in Italian territorial waters on Sept 11, which was the fist anniversary of the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

They said the crew were earning foreign exchange for Pakistan and had secured jobs abroad at a time when jobs were difficult to be had in the country. **If Islamabad did not look after the interests of Pakistan nationals, no Pakistani would again work with foreign shipping companies. ** :disgust:

**They regretted that the Italian police should have displayed gross racism, while the Pakistan embassy in Rome did nothing to help them. ** :disgust:

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PT you have pasted two conflicting reports. One claiming they r not Pakistanis other saying they r not terrorists. Make up your mind.

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I think Mr. Hafizur Rehman of Dawn has got a good Idea to get away from the problem of the Pakistanis on false Passports in Italy by following in the Italian Situation what Mr. Rahman suggests should be done in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.dawn.com/2002/09/25/op.htm

Don’t get beheaded

By Hafizur Rahman

A recent report from Riyadh informed Pakistanis that two (more) of their compatriots had been sentenced to death by beheading in Saudi Arabia after they were caught peddling heroin. Despite the strict laws in that country, and their even stricter application, the hazards involved do not deter enterprising Pakistanis from “business as usual.” They are indeed a brave lot!

On the other hand, one of the most heartening stories I have read in the current debate on President Musharraf’s constitutional amendments was circulated by a little-known news agency some time ago. It said, “The government is giving serious thought to the restoration of Pakistan’s image in foreign countries.”

About time, I said to myself, that some attention was paid to restoring Pakistan’s image in the outside world. But somehow I don’t seem to recollect what the image was in olden times which has become soiled over the years and which the government is seriously considering to revive. And why consider the matter? Why not go ahead and do it? ‘Giving thought’ implies that the government can also decide to leave the matter as it is. The establishment in Pakistan is a great lover of the status quo.

As I have just said, before considering the ways and means, a few knowledgeable persons of advanced age (and good memory) should be asked to sit down and recollect what the old image was. As far as I can recall, it was not very bright. The trouble with our image abroad is that we jumped straight from nonentity to notoriety. There was hardly any image, say, 40 years ago. Foreigners asked, “Pakistan? where is that?” or they said, “Ah, Pakistan. It is India, isn’t it?”

But we have come a long way since then and Paki is now a household world abroad. Its ignominy all the way I admit, mainly because of our expertise at drug trafficking. Though we bravely try to keep up our reputation in other murky fields as well. For instance, it is said that it was a Pakistani from Lahore’s Mochi Gate who first taught the famous London policeman what bribe meant.

Maybe the government has suddenly woken up (just as somebody told it one day about Daylight Saving Time) to the reality of our disreputable name abroad because of what the Jamaat-e-Islami boss Qazi Husain Ahmed once bemoaned. He had disclosed that so far some 600 Pakistanis have been awarded the death penalty by beheading in Saudi Arabia because they were involved in the heroin trade. This was before he became enamoured of the Taliban and began to use all his energies to keep the US out of Afghanistan.

I remember him saying that it was a bad reflection on Pakistan that people “holding the green passport” should be treated as criminals. The situation must be rectified. Though he didn’t take the trouble of informing the nation how this was to be done. I also remember someone else explaining (I forget his name) that most of the Pakistanis arrested in Saudi Arabia were innocent as they were taken there by crooked travel agents on the pretext of providing them jobs. He didn’t say so but he probably meant that since no jobs were provided what else could these poor souls do but to take up the narcotic business for their daily bread? So what if they lost their heads in the bargain!

No one in the political and public life of Pakistan knows how Saudi Arabia can be asked to help, as a sincere friend and well-wisher, minimize the disgrace falling on Pakistan because of the large number of our countrymen getting beheaded for smuggling heroin. Maybe Mian Nawaz Sharif, who is there as a guest, could assist his country. And perhaps as a gesture of thanks for not taking part in the coming election General Pervez Musharraf could appoint him ambassador there.

**After which one way for Mian Sahib to secure the Saudis’ cooperation in this behalf could be to urge them to refrain, for the sake of the ummah, from disclosing the nationality of our men sentenced to death. As an extraordinary gesture of friendship the convicted Pakistanis could also be described as Indian Hindus. This way we would be one up on Mr Advani’s Hindutva.

That would shift the calumny from us to India and bring our hostile neighbour into disrepute in the Middle East at least, thus killing (or shall we say beheading?) two birds with one stone. With all our sucking up to Saudi Arabia that should not be too much to ask for and for Mian Sahib to achieve.**

Coming to the actual process I wonder what the government can really do to restore the country’s image internationally, even if it is able to decide what the image was to which we are required to go back. I do hope it does not advise the people to give up drug smuggling. Ethics and morality apart, that would shatter our economy and badly damage our self-confidence. For it appears that this is the only thing we are good at.

The reason why so many of us get caught in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere is because (as someone explained so ably) our boys are sent there for being gainfully employed, and when they are not provided with jobs they are obliged to take up the sale of drugs as an interim sideline. No sideliner can be really adept at this kind of work which needs expertise, and that is why they get arrested. This needs looking into. We must depute more experienced people for this dangerous duty. They must not lose their heads while they are at it.Anyhow, it is not an easy task to define ways and means to bring back our good name to whatever point it was before it began to drop. I have never been abroad, and for all I know this bad reputation thing may be just hearsay, simply a rumour.

But whatever the government decides to do it must rope in Qazi Husain Ahmed and other top religious leaders (who, with the decline of the Taliban, now have nothing to do except spoil the election for the military bosses) to give positive suggestions and not confine themselves to merely complaining. It is Qazi Sahib who mentioned about 600 Pakistanis having been beheaded in Saudi Arabia and he must do his part of duty towards rectifying the situation. Before he raised the issue, all of us, including the government, were perfectly satisfied with our image.

If I were the government I would say to the people, “You are responsible for the adverse publicity so you go and do whatever is to be done. All that the government can do is to enable as many Pakistanis, all with proper heads on their shoulders, to go to Saudi Arabia as we can in order to earn foreign exchange. It is up to them not to get beheaded.”

I trust fellow guppies will see the Light Side of it all

Have a nice day
:smiley:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dhir: *
PT you have pasted two conflicting reports. One claiming they r not Pakistanis other saying they r not terrorists. Make up your mind.
[/QUOTE]

Dhir, you should read the two links carefully.

First says they aren't Pakistanis.

Second report says those people are Pakistanis but ain't Terrorists.

FBI have gone through the investigation and found no link of Pakistanis.

The Govt. of Pakistan already mentioned it before, investigate it first before accusation.

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Dhir, whats next?

I miss that American-Indian link of yours saying Pakistan was to be bombed out of existence, LOL