Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

Society Religion & Philosophy
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:salam2:

I was watching a debate video on the topic of “three Talaq - Talaq-q-Thulasa” posted on a social media whereas one group claimed if three divorces (3 talaq) given in a single Majlis is counted as three. However another group claimed three divorces (3 talaq) given in a single Majlis is counted as one and not three.

Obviously, both presented their references and for an ordinary person, it will be difficult to make his/her choice.

So I invite you all to share your knowledge on “three divorces (3 talaq) given in a single Majlis will be counted as one or three”.

*P.S. Purpose of this thread is to share our knowledge and not to discuss actual incident of divorce occurred in the life of individuals.

*:jazak:

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Re: Issue of “Divorce” - Masla-e-Talaq

Dear lethal kamikazi, deen of islam has been constantly attacked by mullahs for centuries and so long as people follow nonsense of mullahs things cannot be expected to get better for muslims.

Here is a link for you to see what mullahs have done to reputation of deen of islam with their nonsense India’s Muslim women fight to end triple talaq law that yields instant divorce | Amrit Dhillon | Global development | The Guardian

Here is what iqbal said about deen of islam and mullahs.

It is not possible to divorce anyone three times without marrying them three times. How can anyone take out anything out of anything if nothing has been put in it in the first place? How can anyone take out more things from something than already put in it? This is why the idea of three talaaqs together is an absurd idea and has nothing at all to do with deen of islam. All nonsense attributed to Allah and his messenger is doing of mullahs for their own reasons. This is why deen of islam is attacked by nonmuslims instead of being accepted because mullahs have misinterpreted it and misrepresented it. Time for ummah to educate itself and give up nonsense of mullahs in the name of deen of islam.

Can anyone divorce anyone without first getting married? No. To effect a divorce between a couple there has to be a valid marriage between them. If a marriage is ended after it takes place then that can only be one nikah and one talaaq, not one nikah and many talaaqs. This is how mullahs by their absurd and inconsistent logic ruined the reputation of deen of islam worldwide. For more detailed explanations of things about the quran, deen of islam and pakistan one can see HERE and HERE.

One can see what deen of islam is really about in the following video.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

Walaikumussalam

Without answering the question, i just want to say here. The matters starts with no knowledge of your deen. When you dont even know what Allah syays in Quran here you get stuck with problem like this three in one sitting count one or three are three in one sitting. The ayat is very clear.
الطَّلَاقُ مَرَّتَانِ ۖ فَإِمْسَاكٌ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ تَسْرِيحٌ بِإِحْسَانٍ ۗ وَلَا يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَن تَأْخُذُوا مِمَّا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ شَيْئًا إِلَّا أَن يَخَافَا أَلَّا يُقِيمَا حُدُودَ اللَّـهِ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا يُقِيمَا حُدُودَ اللَّـهِ فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِمَا فِيمَا افْتَدَتْ بِهِ ۗ تِلْكَ حُدُودُ اللَّـهِ فَلَا تَعْتَدُوهَا ۚ وَمَن يَتَعَدَّ حُدُودَ اللَّـهِ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ ﴿٢٢٩﴾
Surah Baqarah
So if Allah is saying divorce is twice. What makes you to say it three times( and no chance of getting your wife back). Just because we hear this since childhood divorce is three so everybody wants to say it three times to free a wife (and then regret of saying it three times). But Allah is saying it is twice. So just give it once or twice if you really want to divorce at least there are chances of return. This is why Allah says it is twice. So follow the command of Allah rather than making it difficult.
Basically, our knowledge of deen is just limited that we cannot handle the matter which is very clear and then we just go here and there to resolve our matters. Though the solution is already given. So we need to understand our deen properly. May Allah increase us in knowledge.Ameen
Personally i go with the opinion of three in one sitting is complete divorce.

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Re: Issue of “Divorce” - Masla-e-Talaq

Dear friends, to understand the quran one has to know the difference between the mazhab of islam and the deen of islam and the way to understand the quran properly. Why? Because till people realise what mazhab of islam is and why it is what it is they cannot have the idea of what deen of islam is and why it is what it is.

You see mazhab is just a human thought or idea. As we know we human beings are born not knowing anything about the real world and its realities. All we are born with is brain and senses to make sense of the world in which we are born and things in it including ourselves. In my other posts I have explained already why God has created us the way he did or the way we are. When we start struggling in this word from our births till our deaths we find out many things about this world that we knew nothing at all about. All this leads some of us who have paid enough attention to things to question our origin and purpose and functioning etc etc. This is where at we get stuck because we cannot go any further from here. This is human thought and that is called mazhab=religion. As people want to know if there is a God or not and if there is one how to reach God to ask him questions we have in our minds and this leads mankind into different directions so people do all sorts of things in order to get near to God as they think better for themselves. However they cannot because God is not within their reach through their brains and senses. At this stage people who wish to take undue advantage of each other in the name of God do so therefore people end up divided into many religions and sects within those religions. This is all a mazhab or religion is from the beginning to the end.

Now the deen of islam aspect of this equation is God getting in touch with humanity. Since people cannot get in touch with God but God can so he gets in touch with mankind through his revelation eg in this era it is the quran that is God’s revelation. This is the foundational difference between deen and mazhab of islam. It is people looking for God and God looking for people and when the two meet that is when the connection becomes complete. Think it as if you want to get to the top of a mountain but you cannot on your own so someone drops you a rope from there to help you get there but you can only use that rope if you could rise to the height needed for you to see and catch the rope that is dropped for you to raise you to the top of the mountain.

Why the rope is short of getting to you? It is because your creator and sustainer has a purpose in mind for creating you and that purpose does not allow him to extend his rope to you to where you are rather he wants you to make your own effort as well in getting to the rope. It is God and man working together that can help humanity succeed in accomplishing the purpose of God that is assigned to humanity by God. This is the main reason mazhab of islam is very different from deen of islam. This explains what is going on around the world in the name of mazhab of islam and deen of islam ie why there are soofies and mullahs and this and that and all claim to have something to do with islam. This is like you have to travel from one place to another but you have to use various modes of transport to get there. You may start walking then take a bus and then get into a ship and then into a plan etc etc to reach your destination. What is going to help you make your journey without problems is your best preparation for it. If you think you can get from a to b without needing any preparations then you will be prone to losing your way at many points along the way either by sticking to a particular mode of transport not knowing when to get off one to get on to another. This is what religions and sects are about and that is why people are lost in them because they get into this journey without making necessary preparations.

Let say a person has made some preparations and he gets to the revelation of God ie you got the quran in your hands which claims to be a guidance from God for mankind. From here on another journey starts and that is how to make sense of the text of the quran or hadith or any written text be it about history or anything else. This again needs a lot of preparation and the foundation for this purpose is to know what is the original human language, how words came about and how they got their meanings. Why is all this important to know? It is because if we do not know these things then we cannot be sure about human language itself never mind any message of anyone for anyone in any language. It is because without knowing these facts about language we could accuse each other about making up things by ourselves as we go along. To make sure this does not happen these facts are necessary to know. Since the quran is merely a text or a collection of written words and nothing more unless we agree its words have a firm foundation and certain concretely established meanings by way of various mechanisms we cannot talk about it or anything else for that matter.

The other main reason for knowing the very first human language is because without it God could never communicate his message to mankind. Try and communicate a message to someone else without using any form of human language, you will soon realise what I am talking about. So far so good. You can try and disagree with me on any of the points I have explained here so far but I do not think you or anyone else can. Human languages are human inventions but God wanted to use human language to communicate his message, which means he meant to convey his own ideas as they were about things because he knows them in reality. There is a big difference in God using word human and a man using word human. It is because God knows each and everything about a human being but not a human being despite being a human being oneself. This is why a language that has ability to accommodate message of God has to be used therefore God becomes limited by this fact just like a grown up becomes limited by talking to a baby in baby language. A baby cannot use a higher maths book. So there arises need for God to wait till baby has become a gown up human beings and has a lot of experience with real world realities by interacting with them directly which help him learn things. This is why we provide our kids with toys because we think they will help them learn things by playing with them. God has created a lot of things in this universe for the very same reason that people interact with them to learn from them and then once they have enough knowledge then they sit down with book of God and try and make proper sense of it and once they have it then work according to its guidance.

This is why God needed to use an original human language to express his message for mankind which could not be mistaken by learned people in the human world for anything that did not fit his purpose. Any period bound language could not express message of God because no human generation was ever capable of knowing all at any point in time in human history. This is why a language had to be chosen by God that was flexible enough to be understood by all for ever after the message of God was revealed to mankind. Such book in this era is only and only the quran.

The Quran explains through out it what deen of islam actually is and what it is not. Moreover the quran is an interactive book because it is for human beings who have been created with ability to self program themselves just like self programming robots. So people who have prepared themselves well should have little problem in understanding its message properly. So people who think God should spoon feed them or do all the work and leave nothing for people to do need to think what they are asking for and why or is there any sense in it at all, because whoever does anything does it for himself so does God. We cannot force our will on God because it is his will that is supreme. Therefore we should not ask God for things that make no sense in the context in which we ask if we sit and think over it. Can you see how the quran is a book of science and philosophy, society, politics and economics? It is because it is book of guidance and not a book of complete instructions for each and every person to each and every minute detail. It contain only and only what was essential for mankind to know so that they could find their way to God. The foundation of deen of islam is its name ie a way of life which is capable of leading mankind to blissful, dignified and secure existence in this very world which will be rewarded in hereafter as well. Word ISLAAM is from root SEEN, LAAM and MEEM. These letters are same as in hebrew. Word islam means same thing both in arabic and hebrew and various other languages.

The question is what was the original human language? It was sign language or body language. Later people learned to connect signs and sounds as codes which gave rise to human speech language and even later they came up with pictures of of concrete realities which they used for explaining their thoughts to each other and that is how began writing. God revealed his message to people only when people had grown up to be able to realise the need for message or guidance of God as explained above.

Ancient Hebrew Alphabet





















regards and all the best.

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Re: Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

Peace All,

Brother, All I can read in your post is "mullahs, mullahs and mullahs". You haven't shared according to what I asked in post # 1. I suggest you to limit your answer as per question, and please refer to verses of Holy Qur'an if you're about to make/clarifying any point.

Many Muslims barely read Holy Quran, if they read then without translation, and even if they read with translation then there are chances of misunderstanding purpose of the verses. Therefore it is recommended to "Ask Ahlul-Ilam/Ahlul-Deen". <-- If we don't know or have no knowledge then we ask those who are in-charge/have authority.

So when a layman ask to them then one person-in-charge gives opinion which differs from another. Here, the layman get stuck and have no clue what to do. What you quoted above is a verse without the context which make a layman more confused.

For the sake of argument, let say divorce is twice (as you explained). A layman who had given three divorces at once will count it as two only?

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Re: Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

dear lethal kamikaze sb, your question has been answered with necessary explanation in a proper context of deen of islam. The simple answer is you cannot divorce more than the times you get married to a person. If you marry someone once how can you divorce that person twice or thrice or whatever? Please answer this question the best you can.

We need to make ourselves aware that islam is a deen from Allah and not a mazhab invented by people as already explained in detail. If we therefore accept islam as a deen then it is a way of life which according to the quran can lead mankind to blissful, dignified and secure existence in this world. The question is what is meant by a way of life? It means people have needs and they must fulfil those needs in order to live in this world and if they fulfilled their needs the way deen of islam tells them then they will have a life the quran promises. Now that raises another question, how can deen of islam lead mankind to a beautiful existence in this world unless it is implement in full? In order for people to have a beautiful life in this world people need land and resources and means of production and distribution under their control. It is because if people have no piece of land in their control then they cannot implement deen of islam anywhere so they cannot have a beautiful life the quran promises. The problem of jurisdiction is a very important one because deen of islam is all about divine program for humanity with guidelines for a constitution and formation of laws. This is why individuals cannot implement deen of islam individually rather it has to be an effort by individuals to become an ummah or a proper humanity community first before they could go for a kingdom based upon guidance of Allah which needs an ummah to bring it about. This is why by dividing people into pigeon holes and then keeping them that way is actually working against deen of islam and that is what mullahs have been doing and this is why we have nonsense masle masaail created by mullahs to divert our attention from real issues that face humanity and particularly this ummah for which deen of islam offers its solutions.

Likewise we have mullahs talking nonsense about divorce and marriage. It is not a matter for mullahs to decide but for ummah if their is one. How can ummah decide this matter when there is no kingdom based upon guidance of Allah in the world today nor the needed ummah? It is because it is a legal matter in context of deen of islam and not a religious matter at all because deen of islam is not a religion. If we want to do things the deen of islam way then we need some place which is under deen of islam jurisdiction wherein is implemented deen of islam based constitution and law. Anything we talk about otherwise makes no sense whatsoever. You cannot have a law if their is no country to implement it in.

This is why when iqbal put forth his idea about deen of islam he explained it in detail as to what it actually means. It were mullahs who opposed him and his idea about having a country wherein we could implement deen of islam to show the world what deen of islam looks like in practice so that humanity could learn from this experience of a people and follow it if they found it worthy. The whole world opposed creation of pakistan for this very reason and they continue to oppose it only and only for that reason because people want to live their lives on basis of perosnal gains at the expense of each other. If that is what they want then let then suffer by hands of each other for as long as they want to live their their lives that way. Once they will get fed up with it only then they will start looking for deen of Allah for them and accept it. This is what is meant by repentance and mending of our ways. Repentence is not about a few empty words as told by mullahs ke Allah meri taubah main bahot hi gunahgaar hun mujhe maaf kar de.

Most of the world is funding mullahs to keep deen of islam covered up by mazhab of islam so that they could carry on what they are doing ie use masses abusively for the benefit of a few at the very top. The mazhabi debates keep people busy in nonsense issues and that helps keep people confused so that gives opportunities to exploiters of humanity to continue their dirty work against humanity.

So yuo can see from all this why mullaism has no authority at all when it comes to deen of islam because deen of islam is authority itself. Only those who interpret the quran properly their interpretation is acceptable not of any authority. Logic and consistency is basis not personalities. In deen of islam there is no such thing as personality cults. It is because people have become personality worshippers that they have lost touch with the quran therefore with deen of islam.

Layman terminology is very damaging for muslims ummah in which each person must try his/her best to know the quran perfectly for its message otherwise people have no reason to say they are muslims. You either support deen of islam faithfully after knowing it properly or you do not. No one can support any cause about which one has no idea what it is all about.

To put people into a pigeon-holes such as of lay person we are destroying the concept of ummah or what is left of it. Time to look around and see what is happening to people who claim to be muslims. One has to ask why is this all happening to them? It is because we are muslims who only know islam by its name and that is why we could not pass on the message of deen of islam to rest of humanity and the result is humanity is at level of animals in its thinking level so it is doing to each other what animals do to each other. The only way to turn things round is to learn the message of Allah properly and help the rest of humanity do the same and then see the result.

What is happening in the world is that people are leading each other into a dead end due to their narrow mindedness instead of vast open expanse. By reacting to each other's harmful and destructive thoughts and actions against each other people are gradually turning their world into a complete hell hole and the only way out of it is that which is told by the quran to which people who have the quran are not paying proper attention as they should so no wonder the time has arrived against which the quran warned us clearly and repeatedly. If we will not work for better world then those who work for making the world hell will keep on succeeding and the world will turn into a hell hole by our own making.

If we the people who can read and write and can understand things a bit do not learn the quran properly and spread its message properly then what is purpose of our knowing whatever little we know about things? So dear brother think about it and try to realise where I am coming from.

regards and all the best.

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Re: Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

Well brother LK,

i follow the opinion "3 talaqein ek wakt mein deny se talaq e mughalaz (disliked divorce) waqiqa hojati hy" means three times if you divorce your wife in one majlis will be counted as three.
But i respect the other opinion as well. But i dont follow this other opinion (three times/two times if you divorce your wife in one sitting(majlis) will be counted as one.
As i am a student of knowledge till this day, so i cannot give my own opinion based on my understanding and little knowledge. Second my point for mentioning the ayat was is to learn how to divorce your wife, the law comes for us so we being a muslim should learn all the laws given in Quran to avoid confusions.

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Re: Issue of "Divorce" - Masla-e-Talaq

Here is my two cents regarding this issue.
I dont believe that saying talaq three times at once counts as three. By repeating the phrase again and again in one sitting, only logical thing one can determine is that person giving divorce is Angry and not in a sane condition to be making such a huge decision.
My understanding is that divorces is 3 times (in three different sittings). It is also my understanding that after you give first or second divorce, you are to live separately and think about situation with a cool mindset. And if you want to change your decision and go back to your wife, you can do so. When you divorce a third time, it is understood that differences are really irreconcilable and that you have given the matter enough thought and its finalized.
The main concept behind three divorces is to not make decisions in a haste. Of course in today's world where lawyers and courts are involved, the "hasty" part is already negated, since you dont just get a court and lawyer date as soon as you want. You have to wait for days and weeks for things to happen, which gives one enough time to make a "cool minded" decision.

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Re: Issue of “Divorce” - Masla-e-Talaq

What is your opinion on this matter?