Why did the West (and then East Asia and Latin America) eclipse the Islamic world in the first place? For a 1,000 years the Islamic world was ahead of the rest of the world. It was on the cutting edge of change. The West was a backwater. What happened? You are right the West is still evolving. That is why it has progressed. The Islamic world has been more or less frozen in time for quite a while. The Islamic world simply cannot adapt on the fly to the changing world because of its culture and because the dead weight of the ulema/molvis/mullahs/whatever you want to call them.
Our of imperialism? Read that statement again and think about it. How did a civilization which for a 1,000 years engaged in imperialism find itself conquered in a few centuries? What happened--what went wrong?
Imperialism is used too often as an excuse. The world's most powerful nation went from colony to world power in a little more than a century, Japan and Germany came out of occupation and devastating wars to become world powers in a few decades, look at South Korea, and look at the best example: next door India. Why has India developed better than Pakistan? They are basically the same in history, started at the same time, came out of the same colonial experience, had similar forms of government, and similar cultures. The only difference between the two is religion.
Yes, but American society/culture and its political system is built to allow for it to change with the times.
America is one of only two countries in the history of the world to elect an ethnic minority to its highest office. I think the US is doing fine on this issue. While it is not perfect, it is better than anywhere else in the world on this issue.
Much of the movement in the Islamic world is regressive. There is no guarantee the Muslim world will change for the better. It may turn back the clock to the 9th century if Islamists succeed.
This is a Pakistani board. Why is so much ink spilled over Israel here? Why is there never any talk about Saudi Arabia, who Pakistanis love?
A picture says a thousand words! It is illegal for a Saudi citizen to be a non-Muslim. If a Muslim converts, they are executed. This is not a form of apartheid? Non-Muslim workers in the country cannot build churches or temples--while Saudi Arabia has spent billions around the world to build 1,500+ mosques abroad (to spread its ideology...), especially in Pakistan.
That depends on what you define as illegal. When the Saud clan took over Arabia they did it through force, not purchase or negotiation. Do you think Shia in Saudi Arabia want to be ruled by the Saudis?
Chill out. I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Pakistanis in general.
What I don't understand is why is Israel singled out by Pakistanis? The only explanation is Arab (read: Saudi) influence of the nation. Where were Pakistanis on Darfur?
Kashmir is Indian territory (forget 1947. This is a fact now and should be accepted). Why the desire to expand into it when you oppose taking other people's land? The idea is to take over and occupy it, no?
Pass legislation protecting them, eliminate terrorist groups who attack them. Why don't we ever see Jamaatis marching for the rights of religious minorities?
Med, the record speaks for itself. Where are these folks when non-Sunnis are killed? Christians intervened to help Muslims (who were fighting Christians) in the Balkans in the 90's. I've never seen Muslims come to the aid of non-Muslims being persecuted by Muslims (cough Darfur) or Sunnis help Shias being persecuted by Sunnis. Perhaps I am wrong. Can you point me to any examples of these things occurring?
Ok your reasoning here is so full of holes here...
First of all, what are we talking about? In what way did Western society eclipse the Muslims?
The LATIN world ! Which country are you refering too? How has the Latin world eclipsed the Muslim world? In what field?
I lived in Mexico and Belize, and neither of them was very impressive.
China was also well ahead of the Western world.. What happned there?!?!
Problem here is your jumpng all over the place. You need to be more specific.
The reason for the rise of Western Europe are many. Where do we begin?
How do you know the Muslim world has been frozen in time? And in what sense are they frozen in time? Islamic philosophy and arts have continued to grow and change.
Like I said, your vision is clouded by the fact that you can only precieve change within the narrow window of your own exsistance. But what the Muslims need is profound change. Such change does not develop over night. It develops in very small incriments over many generations.
We can look back on Western civilization and see landmarks because we see things in retrospect. But very few among the people living at the time would have recognized that something so small could have such a huge impact centuries later.
Imperialism is just one example, but to ignore it is a grave mistake. Imperialism had a huge impact.
The reason Israel gets spoken of so often is because one, Israel is a hot topic EVERYWHERE! The Middle East plays a HUGE role in global politics, and Israel is at the center of most Middle East discussions.. Second, because its the holy land, the Palestinians are fellow Muslims, and many Muslims including those on this forum feel a kinship with their fellow Muslims.
Saudia Arabia has been discussed on this forum before. You havet been here long enough to have taken part in the discussion.
How minorities should be treated in Saudia Arabia is a moot point. Whether I agree with the Saudis or not is not relevant to this topic. Suffice it to say that im not their biggest fan. But like I said, last I checked the people of Saudi are not up in arms. So unless I hear from the miserable people of Saudi myself, I cant assume your the expert.
Kashmir is NOT Indian territory, and it never will be. The idea is to allow the people of Kashmir the right to decide their own fate. Something a bleeding heart such as yourself should openly support. End of story.
Pakistan can pass all the legislation it wants and that will still not stop bigoted terrrorists... Thats a naive statement u made.
And Pakistan is fighting extremists last I checked... About time too.
