Israel warns of threats to India

[Med911]

@Reason

I never said that. What I said was the Pakistani government did so because of the Arabs. Over time that trickled down to the people who adopted the government view on Israel, and this view was also influenced by Saudi influence in Pakistan.

Yes and that is both hypocritical and counterproductive. For the latter, if Muslims cared more about improving their particular countries than Israel they would make more progress. Instead, especially in Arab nations, obsession with Israel sucks out all the oxygen from the country’s political talk.

China is occupying Tibet. Where are these ethics and morals regarding that? Let’s face it, Pakistan’s policy in Israel is based on a belief that it will help it curry favor with the Arabs.

Strength, wealth, science, social development, social justice, etc.

Latin America is not great but it is, as a whole, better than the Muslim world. Brazil is rising and will probably be a world power in the coming decades. There is no Muslim country of which the same can be said.

It did not keep up with the new ideas coming out of Europe, i.e. liberty, freedom of religion.

In many ways Muslim societies today are the same as they were centuries ago. For instance, the common feudalism and the lack of rights for women (especially in some Middle Eastern nations), the lack of minority rights, etc.

Certainly but imperial conquest was a consequence, not a cause of Muslim weakness. Remember, for 1,000 years it was Muslims who were the imperialists. The imperialists becoming the conquered could not have happened unless the empires declined.

Israel did not occupy Jerusalem until 1967. What was Pakistan’s beef with Israel before then? Ah, kinship…but what about women Muslims kill Muslims? Where was this kinship when Turkey suppressed Kurds in the late 90’s?

Do research on Saudi Arabia. Pakistanis were not up in arms against the UK. Does that mean they were happy with British rule and policy?

In reality it is. How do you propose that Pakistan take it?

Yes, but that is not feasible for India will never allow that vote.

Legislation can reduce discrimination in employment, education, etc. just like such legislation has done elsewhere.

Pakistan is not making a full effort against terrorists. What it does is launch an offensive every now and then and then take a vacation. It has not launched an all out war to root out all the terrorist camps. The terrorists are known to be in Wazirstan. Pakistan has not evicted them from there. Are there even any Pakistani troops there right now?

I dont agree. I think it was the other way around.
And whatever reason it was, I Israels behavior has vindicated this position.

Again, there are many countries with useless preoccupations. Doesn seem to have slowed them down. America has its Cuba, China has its Taiwan.
So what?!

Im sure there are many Muslims who feel for the Tibetans aswell. Open a thread and we can discuss that issue. But on scale of priorities, Muslims will lean towards support of their own, expecially against an outsider. Its human nature to support ones own.

Latin America is perhaps RELATIVELY better off… But you havent lived anywhere in the Latin World so you base it all on your own assumptions.
Social development etc is a term that needs defining. Social development as its understood in one group is not the same as in another. So you cant really use the Western world as meter stick on which to measure such a thing, because its different per culture.
Besides this, I would say that you simply need to compare social and economic indicators of Muslim countries to their Latin American counter part.
Look at literacy for example. Even Oman has an overall literacy of 81 percent compared to 88 percent in Brazil. Not a big difference.
Economic and social indicators of many Muslims countries rate favorably with most Latin American countries.
Infact, most Muslim countries have better indicators then even India, which was another of your example of “progress.”
Check CIA fact book for an accurate accounting on such indicators.

Freedom and Liberty are issues that even the European countries themselves struggle with to this day.
Your very callous ignore the dynamics of the Muslim world. You seem to think the Western mould can fit anything. The Europeans are a very different society from Muslims. Its an unfair comparison. The dynamics that drove change in Europe were very different from those in the Muslim world.
Muslims will improve ther lot, but it will be at their own pace and in there own way.
And again the Muslims arent the only ones to have been left behind as you put it. “Progress” over the last hundreds of years has been limited to a very small corner of the world, that being Western Europe. Most of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East were left far behind. And as I said before, Muslim countries are catching up. Social and economic indicators prove this.

I disagree.. Muslims have come a long way, but you were not alive centuries ago. You dont know. Your vision is limited.
Minority rights have to be viewed on a case by case basis. Much of the so called discrimination is blown out of proportion. Some of it is real.
But in the larger context, how much worse are Muslime compared to apartheid South Africa, bigoted Ausralia, segregationist America, and ofcourse the worst of the lot, the NAZI Germany?!?! All relatively recent in Western society despite their vaunted love for human rights.

How do you know the Muslims dont support kurds?!?! I think you are confusing govt policy for the will of the people.
Perhaps in just world Turkey would be punished for her crimes. But such is the world.
In the grand scheme of things however, im glad the Pakistani govt has got it right by not supporting Israel. Atleast they choose the right side there.

You made the point about Saudi.. Not me. So you do the research and prove your point.
People protest when they are oppressed. Its the rule of thumb, andpeople have done so under far more represive regimes then the Saudis. I think you are trying to bring your own prejudices to the table in your crude assesment of Saudi society. I think there is far more complexity then you are willing to explore.
As an example, and I know this isnt the end all of all debates, but just for fun, here is a view of Saudia Arabia through the eyes of a Saudi women hosting Anthony Bourdain.

Im not saying they are perfect, far from it. But atleast have an open mind. You seem to make sweeping genralizations about so many things.

As for imperialsim, consequence or otherwise, it did exist. And whether you like it or not, its had a great impact on the developmnet of the modern Muslim world.

As for Kashmir, I dont know how we can help the Kashmiris. But we will never stop supporting them. Im sorry if im not someone who would surrender my countries self respect for some dubious notions of “progress.”

And ofcourse its not feasible for India. Why would India allow any Kashmiri the right to self determination?! Odd how you are such an apologist when it comes to India refusing human rights, but are so disgusted by Muslims!

Legislation maybe… Making laws are one thing, but enforcing them quite another. And as any African American can attest, legislation doesnt mean discrimination and prejudice disapperar..

As for the Shia. No amount of legislation will convince any extremist.

As for Waziristan.. You dont seem to know anything about the area. You naivly assume its just a walk in the park. Try to appreciate the complexity of the issue instead of seeing things as black and white.

It seems the problem with you is you refuse to take into account any of the complexities of the world, the dynamics of the Muslim world. You make general assumpations based on nothing more then you preconcieved notions, and your western fed prejudices.