israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
61

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Not their preachings, if a Hezbollah cleric was reading this forum, he would be more calm, cool and collected and would be able to rip any one here to shreds with his enlightened way. I suggest anyone who actually wants to talk to real Lebanese, to go to www.shiachat.com, and just see how you survive posting against Muslims over there. Maybe on a Paki forum you can freely talk against Muslims, but not over there.

old mcdonald had a farm
62

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Blind loyalty is for dogs. Supporting terrorists operations that will only bring pain to your country is irrational and asinine. It's been 20 years since the organization he's say protected his family, 20 years! It is now putting his family in danger with their reckless acts of terror. Do expect Israel to back down? They have used a fraction of their military capabilites. To what end does one expect if you contine to support an organization that hijacks your country and brings it to war with a much more powerful nation?

63

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

You still don’t get it and you never will. They have more than protected our family, they have made our livelihood better. It’s different in the South. Hezbollah’s protection never ends. Just because there is no civil war in Lebanon, (yet) does not mean that there is no threat to the South by other groups in Lebanon who are allied with the terrorist state of Israel.

You still continue on with this foolishness of Hezbollah “hijacking” my country. Hezbollah is an integral and indigenous part of Lebanon, because we the people, make it so.

64

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

No I do understand, like Hamas they are well organized and have little corruption which has enable them to provide social services which has helped many, like yourself. That said their military wing has drawn the country into a bloody war, are you telling me you want this war?

65

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

I am not saying I want this war. But I will support them in any endeavour. Who but Hezbollah provides protection in our region? It’s easy when you’re in America with the luxuries of a police force in suburbia, but it’s different there. The impotent Lebanese army isn’t going to protect us and the central government isn’t either.

This is why Hezbollah is a neccessity in Lebanon. The only other way is for all Lebanese to unite under one banner, but I doubt this will happen soon.

And Hezbollah is a stabilizing force in Lebanon. They have TOTAL control on the repressed Shia majority there, who have yet to achieve their complete political suffrage. Without Hezbollah, Lebanon would be in a civil war for much between all the sects, but since Hezbollah has their interests at heart, and participates in the government, the Shi’a so far are satisfied.

If your government wants to get rid of Hezbollah, it should encourage the Lebanese goverment to give REAL democracy a chance, and then we will see how Lebanon should be run.

I would also like to add this:

from the antiwar.com blog

"So Long, Cedar Revolutionaries
Thursday, July 13th in News by Matt Barganier |

Seems like only yesterday you guys were the bee’s knees. Now you’re back to being nameless, faceless Arabs, which is all you really ever were to the neocons and neolibertarians who made such a fuss about the Cedar Revolution. Your value as props has disappeared. Go die quietly.

66

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

its basically a circular argument...

israel pro-longed its occupation in lebanon after removing Yasser Arafat due to Hezbollah

Hezbollah was created to fight Israel

Israel decided to stay in lebanon due to hezbollah, both fed each other....

Lebanon would not have any security issues with Israel if not for Hezbollah

Yay or Nay
67

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Asalamvalekum, Da best, looking into your FACTS, thats some good insight to all of them around in this world.
The media hoople around, the way we percieve Hezbollaah as, this is the perception caused by the west.
This is nothing personal, i just spoke to one of my friends I told him Hezbollah, is more of a party in the souther lebanon, for the people and not on the religious side.
Please throw some light whether Hezbollah is got only muslims those are shia muslims, are they funded by Hamas and Iran.
These were the queries, I got after discussing with my friend.
Its crystal clear from your above arguments that even Christians are a part of Hezbollah. Which is shocking can you please be more detailed.

68

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Israel using this excuse to kidnap of soldiers? Hizb attack civilians = terrorists, they attack Army = they are still terrorists??

Israel killing innocent civillians = defending motherland
Israel soldier captured = kidnapping
anyother person captured by Isreal = Terrorist arrested.

get the facts right if lebonnon army is toothless, hizb will defend its homeland and in order to do so they will use every thing they have got.

I would blame every neighbour or Isreal who hasnt got any guts to stop this non sense from Israel, they just watching the show and looking towards US and israel for mercy. faggets

I wish Isreal has a equlant opponent in war to have fairplay and fight. but egypt ,syria, KSA or jordan are just bunch of cowards.

US dont even let a condem resolution to get passed in UN against Israel, dont know what they owe to Israel so much that they care about them more then their own moms.

69

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

No one addresses the root cause

The root cause is not that 2 soldiers were abducted
The root cause is that innocent civilians are being held in Israeeli prisons. Thats the root cause so dont lose your sense of direction and start waffling

70

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

^ Thats right. Israel has been kidnapping and holding hundreds of prisoners for years without trial. With that in mind its inevitable Hezbollah would hit back and use these soldiers as a bargaining chip to secure the release of its prisoners. Israel simply got a taste of its own medicine and is now hiding its barbarity under the guide of protecting its people.

71

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

I think you have the time periods wrong. Israel left South Lebanon and Arafat was still in full control. This was in 2000.

Israel initially came into Lebanon because of the PLO, not because of hezbollah and they stayed because of the PLO. Hezbollah was there to resist Israeli terror.

Hezbollah was not created to fight Israel, it was created to safeguard the interests of the Shia majority since the central government was not doing so.

If Hezbollah wasn't there, you can be sure, and the most anti-Hezbollah Christian can tell you, that Lebanon would be a part of Israel.

72

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

duplicate post.

73

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Hezbollah has Sunni Muslims as well as Christians. But it is fundamentally a Shia organization founded by Sheikh Fadlallah, a relatively moderate cleric when it comes to Shariah. Basically anyone who has any dignity and fights for justice is part of Hezbollah. Everyone in the South Lebanon admires and respects Hezbollah.

Unfortunately there is no real democracy in Lebanon, if there was, without any regard to how many seats are reserved for which sect (Sunni, Shia, Maronite, Druze, Alawi, etc.), you can be sure that at least 45% of the seats would go to the Shia, and a good amount of them Hezbollah.

Another interesting fact is that every political party in Lebanon operates a militia, Hezbollah is just the only powerful one.

Like said by our brother Lajawab, Hamas also has Christian members.

74

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

I think we are seeing the result of the bifurcation of some of these groups which have Political Wings and Military Wings. The political wing wins the loyalty of the people by protecting them, feeding them, and providing the basics of society, such as education and healthcare. *This is precisely what a legitimate government should do and does do in most of the world. *But then Hamas and Hezbullah take this good will and betray it with their adventurous Military Wing.

Once they have bought the loyalty of their people, they can count on undying support as they engage in their adventurous military policy. I am certain that very few people voted for Hamas because of Hamas' radical policies. People voted for Hamas because they made life better on the ground, and Fatah was a corrupt and ineffective group having failed over years of Intifada courtesy of Arafat. But Fatah started out much like Hizbullah and Hamas. They strated with the roots of the PLO, but they evolved into the Palestinian Authority which was the only caregiver on the ground for the Palestinians.

Both Hamas and Hezbullah are adept at buying support, but they have clearly betrayed that loyalty as did Fatah by preaching constant violence and unending conflict. The Palestinian Territories were on the same economic upswing that Lebanon was, prior to the Intifada. We have seen the results of that failed conflict.

75

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

People supported and voted for Hamas....your simple mind cannot accept that...so you are trying to qualified that support.....whereas the peoples vote was unqualified.

76

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Hamas was the lesser of two evils. That does not mean that they had a mandate for all of their radical policies.

Do you think Hamas has done a good job so far? Are the lives of the Palestinians better or worse under Hamas leadership? That is the essence of accountability under a Democracy. More than likely Hamas will take up the Arafat method of electioneering, "One man, One Vote, One time".

Of course Hamas will blame Israel. There is some crazy idea that because Hizbullah or Hamas or Ahmadinijhad are elected, that the rest of the world must accept that. The rest of the world reserves their right to assert their will against regimes that they refuse to work with. Democracy works in two directions.

77

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Its no point you sitting in Ohio and me in England...lecturing the Palestinians on how they should vote....or trying to work out whats in their interest. It's democracy accept it, and get over it....they have the publics mandate.

78

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Oh, I accept their vote. I do not agree with it, and that is my right. Votes have consequences, they are now learning that. Do you think that Hamas might have to change to get re-elected? Or do you think they will scuttle the election to avoid being ousted?

P.S., I am not in Ohio.

79

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

Well I don't think we have the right to question how people vote in other countries. I have not right to question why people voted for Bush in the U.S it was their vote. I may not like it...but its tough luck.

I think Hamas would need to change as it is no longer a party in opposition but a ruling party...however that change needs to seen on the other side as well and people in other countries need to accept Hamas as well, but the change would be gradual.

I don't think anyone hates the U.S and Israel per se. I grew up on reading American books and have a lot of respect for the people there. But the U.S foreign policy sucks and if you want people to like you then you have to change your actions. Actions speak louder than words. You can put as much spin on things as you like. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time.

80

Re: israel and america - like vultures, they are destroying Muslim lives

no, i am talking about the israeli invasion in 1982 to remove yasser arafat and PLO from beirut.

as PLO left, Iran created Hezbollah and started to fight Israel

Israel stayed because if it withdrew, hezbollah could bring fighting into Israel

Hezbollah stayed because it says it was fighting the Israelis and protecting lebanon

so both fed each other