^
i dnot defend arabs....
i just hate the trend of pakistanis and indians (muslims) accusing the arabs for being unIslamic and all when they in themselves r no better....
educational level here is low because there is no motivation....
everyone knows that whethere good or bad, a degree is guaranteed to get them a job....
had it been a place like pakistan, where only a selected few get a job, there wud have been more motivation to get better grades (and learn more)....
perhaps its also the reason that u find most of the intelligent ppl among the poor....
and WA forum is to me just as the shor sharaba section - univisted by me cuz i feel its all unimportant issues; jokes forum is a better way to get entertainment i think....
i am so freaking sick and tired of this forum, anytime you post something that goes against the status quo - God forbid i should be criticizing fellow Muslims oh my God what was i thinking - then all hell breaks loose. People, it’s called self-introspection. Without it, every individual might as well die because we are leading a futile existence. If we are not going to better ourselves and the collective state of our ummah, then what’s the whole purpose ? Just because these particular Arab rulers govern over a part of the Arabian quarter, doesn’t mean they are all holy and sanctified and pious. Some of them are, yes, not all of them.
You all love to jump down someone’s throat whenever they post something that God Forbid should go against mainstream thinking. Open up your minds; six hundred centuries ago, Muslims were the ones pushing the limits of thinking in science and all manners of related fields including philosophy and poetry. They were not afraid of criticizing those whom they perceived of as being in the wrong. Six hundred years later, we’ve regressed to the point where self-criticism is perceived of as being heretical, almost. What gives ?
man! i am so sick of the backwards thinking in this forum. It makes me want to throw up in despair. If you don’t think like us, you’re not with us. Sounds quite frighteningly closed-minded to me.
hm since i am in the mood to rant, might as well add in a few more things....
These same Muslim Arab rulers you all seem so eager to defend, are the same ones who will not think twice about deporting Pakistani construction workers upon the flimsiest of "evidence"; what rights do manual workers have over there? Almost none. i have read somewhere that according to Islam, labourers/workers are supposed to be paid before the sweat dries from their brow. Forget sweat drying from their brow, some of them are not paid (in some, not all, cases) even six months later. That was the case about two years ago with one of the Arab-owned companies in Abu Dhabi. The Muslim workers actually tried to hold a demonstration to demand their six months' wages which they had not yet received. Forget about the equality that Islam stipulates for every human being. It does not exist. i couldn't give a rat's arse about whatever supposed piety they supposedly possess simply because they are rulers of "Arabia" - that's pure BS. That places more, not fewer, obligations on them to ensure their monarchical rule (which by the way, ITSELF is a contradiction to Islam - since when has it been permitted to have monarchical dynastical hereditary rule ?! ) - is in accordance with the teachings of Islam.
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why shud others accept ur views when u cant accept views that oppose u????
2 simultaneous posts just thrown in to show how annoyed u r at ppl not siding u in this....
and hey, its not the first time u spoke against the arabs....
if my memory serves me right, sayed qutub shaheed, in his book, milestones, mentioned a hadith, which i dont know the source nor do i believe it very authentic, but it said (translated) "Islam is abased when Arab is abased"....
its quite hurting for me when i think of this....
[QUOTE] Originally posted by armughal: *
if my memory serves me right, sayed qutub shaheed, in his book, milestones, mentioned a hadith, which i dont know the source nor do i believe it very authentic, but it said (translated) "Islam is abased when Arab is abased"....
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, it is "ahadith" like these that make Arabs (and their defenders) think they have a *carte blanche. Highlighting any of their faults is immediately deemed tentamount to insulting Islam.
Not sure what the argument is about. Most of us would accept that many of the Arab states are not being run perfectly according to islam, but the simple point is that other countries (pk, for instance) are worse in the sense that islam is kept aside by most people on most occasions, and cultural things are often done in the name of islam.
If this is only a bit of self criticism, then I believe pakistanis are just as much to blame, considering that we have atleast a 100 brands of “islam” available here. Add to that the simple fact that our states are not even remotely run in the name of islam, our systems are just as bad if not worse.
armughal, i think, was trying to suggest the above, and Nadia, i do understand that it is good to know the difference b/w right and wrong, i.e. arrogance, and the by-birth-superiority of the royal families, but as armughal mentioned that some of these rulers may be well-loved by the ppl, and what you may have percieved as arrogance may not be correct.
Trust me, if you read a bit of pakistani history, you’ll see how idiotic, and self-centred our own govts have been. Take for instance zia ul haq, the self proclaimed ameer ul momineen. Infact all of our leaders somehow try to bend islam to suit their purposes. Ofcourse the arab rulers have their different sort of weaknesses.
You would find them arrogant, they’d think your country is a shame in the name of Islam, you’d think they are idiotic towards the public, they’d point something out about your rulers.. how can that lead to anything good?
Great. So now if someone passes a comment on someone, another comes along and says you are worse. And that would somehow make the first ok? Its unfortunate, that we not only are unwilling to acknowledge our problems but are actually engaged in a battle to be at the lowest denominator.
there is a whole forum dedicated to Pakistan Affairs. Perhaps you should make your very valid points over there. Trust me, they've been made before.
There are some amongst us who place arabs on a pedestal, which not only is demeaning to your own culture, but to Islam.
Why does nobody bring Pakistan into discussions when America is being targeted for human rights violations? I have never seen anyone in our camp, least of all armughal do so.
Why merely Arabs above criticism?
You would think that the closer someone is to you, the more you would identify their stains as your own.
It would be a sad reflection on this forum if a reasonable poster like you just cannot post here anymore. I certainly can identify with that.
This forum gives intolerance a completely different meaning. There are those who cannot tolerate percieved slights to arab pride. There are those who will not post anything unless there is a sect bashing aspect to it. This forum has been appropriated by people who cannot and will not use it for any other motive but for the sake of picking and sustaining quarrels.
From completely unnecessary defensiveness to naked aggressiveness, its merely inwardly adopted unflinching positions of meum against tuum that dictate most of the posts here. NOT a genuine desire to talk about religion.
If some "soooooooo innocent "people dislike Urbes and their
countries soooo much.why go there to work or get jobs.
why not stay in PAKISTAN where every body is treated "equal".
Faisal, what are you so huffed about? Did I say anything about not being able to say something because their are worse ppl around? My whole point was that passing comments is not ok.
Their rulers, just as ours have their weaknesses. But I do believe correction starts from ourselves (pakistanis) not by commenting on ppl elsewhere. All of us are adults and can surely see what the arab rulers are doing wrong.
How are arabs above criticism here or anywhere else? Almost everyone who talks on the issue has something to say about them (rich, filthy pigs drinkin down the muslim cash etc etc) Its fairly common on this board, forget about how common it is elsewhere in pk.
ravage,
"Why does nobody bring Pakistan into discussions when America is being targeted for human rights violations?". Yes pk should be brought into the discussion, more so our own faults should be corrected first instead of running over to pick faults in others. If thats what you are saying then I do agree.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ammarr: *
My whole point was that passing comments is not ok.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting. If someone is not passing comments, then they have no need to be on Gupshup, anyway. Bcz, GS is exactly for this... passing comments. You may not like passing comments, or listening to them, fine... stay away. Cz otherwise reading GS will be a painful experience. :-P
As ravage said, there is a whole forum dedicated to discussing Pakistan, our faults and our accomplishments. No one stops anyone from bringing topics up. So its all fair game for "passing comments". At the same time, there are countless threads trashing different policies of US, India, Israel.... and, yes Arab countries. If every time, someone criticizes something about US, and another person comes in and says "Go back to Pakistan and solve your problems first, before opening your mouth about US", that will not only be unreasonable but a stupid comment. These are the basic reasons why we have different forums and different topics, so we can discuss anything we chose.
If someone wants to defend Arab ruler, by all means, do so. But if someone comes here and says no one has a right to criticize Arab rulers because either (#1) insulting Arabs is insulting Islam or (#2) Pakistan has bigger problems so no one should criticize Arab rulers... both these positions are, IMO, inane and absurd. Like it or not.
I thought this post was about the huge pictures of men painted/projected onto buildings - why has it become an issue about arab bashing?
It is not about abasing arabs it is about the pictures debasing the leaders and the people. What purpose does it serve to have hugeeeeeee pictures of yourself plastered everywhere - what is your message? what are you trying to achieve?
There is no precedence for it from the sunnah ( i think that was Nadia;s point) infact human images are actively discouraged.
Can you imagine the Queen's pic plastered over every new building - what an egg throwing invitation that would be?
Its in poor taste, self serving and self adulatory not to mention aesthetically questionable.
If someone wants to defend Arab ruler, by all means, do so. But if someone comes here and says no one has a right to criticize Arab rulers because either (#1) insulting Arabs is insulting Islam or (#2) Pakistan has bigger problems so no one should criticize Arab rulers... both these positions are, IMO, inane and absurd. Like it or not.
[/QUOTE]
1) i clearly mentioned that the hadith i quoted might be a flaw of my memory and not quotwed accurately....
plus i mentioned very clearly that i do not find it authentic....
so u over-did ur imagination in assuming what u assumed from my post....
2) no one said that no one shud be criticizing arab rulers....
all i said was that why do we always have to bring in arabs portrayed as bad muslims....
r we any better ourselves that we search for examples elsewhere????
and hey guess what, there might be people who might think ur opinions r worse that being insane and absurd....
like it or not....
oh my God what was i thinking - then all hell breaks loose. People, it’s called self-introspection. Without it, every individual might as well die because we are leading a futile existence. If we are not going to better ourselves and the collective state of our ummah, then what’s the whole purpose ? Just because these particular Arab rulers govern over a part of the Arabian quarter, doesn’t mean they are all holy and sanctified and pious. Some of them are, yes, not all of them.