Are these people the same? Why do Ismailis have 43 Imams (and still counting)when Shias have only 12? are they one of the 13 Sects of Followers of Hazrat Ali That rameesha mentiond?
I need info on these people!
OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: “BELIVE IN YOUR LORD” SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS
(3:193)
They are really over the edge that is why most are found in India where they can create all sorts of non-sense in islam...its pretty sa...one of the groups in india started to worship some turtles near a tomb of a saint...saying that these are childern of the saint...pretty stupid aint it?
[This message has been edited by Chonkee Daar (edited November 09, 2000).]
Bohris and Ismailis...
Hmm......actually bohris were discussed a few days earlier, where AAMARS provided a pretty decent response/explanation abt bohris. Might as well check out that discussion.
Re: Ismailis, my knowledge is quite limited. But they have as their leader a man, with pots of money (mostly their own contributions, mebbe). The Prince Agha Khan is also their spiritual leader, and so Ismailis pretty much take him as the imam and leader. Prince Agha Khan is also in the forefront of many many many charity projects all over the muslim world. Obviously he is also a big businessman too, with a glamorous wife.
Re: the number of imams... well, neither the bohris nor the ismailis are proper shias, though at one time they may have spun off from shi'ite muslims.
The teachings they follow are a mixture of pure shi'ite teachings modified by their imams/leaders of modern times.
Whether they are one of the 13 sects, I really don't know, primarily bcz I don't know the statement made by ramesha and how authentic it is. In any case, it is besides the point.
Take care... Ta ta!
Don't Blame me...
C'est La Vie :)
do they consider themselves of the shia' sect?
Yesterday is history,
Tommorow is a mystery,
Today is a gift,
That's why we call it PRESENT!
For Info on Ismailiism:
The Institute of Ismaili Studies, founded by His Highness the Aga Khan, promotes scholarship and learning on Islam, with emphasis on Shi‘ism in general and its Ismaili Tariqah in particular, and a better understanding of their relationship with other faiths and societies. Its programmes, informed by the full range of diversity within Islam, explore the relationship of religious ideas to broader dimensions of society and culture, paying particular attention to issues of modernity. It also encourages an interdisciplinary approach to the study of Islamic history and thought. In pursuit of its objectives, the Institute collaborates with other institutions of learning.
II) http://www.hal-pc.org/~amana/ismaili.html
In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu’minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta’wil and Ta’lim of Allah’s final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his own daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat (Alayha-s-salam). In the holy Quran the family of the Prophet (S.A.S.) has been declared pure, and Prophet Muhammad at the historical incident known as the Mubahila, he identified these to be Hazrat Ali, Bibi Fatima and their children Hazrat Hassan and Hazrat Hussein - the Panj Tan Paak.
III)
For Questions and Understanding the Ismaili tariqa:
http://www.egroups.com/group/ismailism
Present Imam (or spiritual leader - community leader - which ever works for u) of "Shia Imami Ismailies" is the 49th imam. When I say 49th, it mean thats all 49 imams till today are the direct decendends (children and grand children) of Hazrat Ali, who is considered as the First Imam of shia.
I'll write more later; if u guys have any question do ask, I'll try to explain and answer ur question.
Bye for now and take care
yasin
[quote]
Originally posted by Yasin:
**Present Imam (or spiritual leader - community leader - which ever works for u) of "Shia Imami Ismailies" is the 49th imam. When I say 49th, it mean thats all 49 imams till today are the direct decendends (children and grand children) of Hazrat Ali, who is considered as the First Imam of shia.
I'll write more later; if u guys have any question do ask, I'll try to explain and answer ur question.
Bye for now and take care
yasin**
[/quote]
Are you an Ismaili?
And why did they deny the Right of Imam Musa Kadhim? (shia's 7th Imam)
I am a direct decendant of Bibi fatema(i'm a syed) does that mean I can call myself an Imam?
Do you guys belive in Imam Mahdi?
Can you called them real Muslims? Can these people hold high ranking posts in Pakistan?
Shah Jahan:
For Ismailis Imam Mehdi is our present Imam or the 49th Imam Shah Karim Aga Khan.
After Imam Jaffer Sadiq, Ismailis followed his eldest son Imam Ismail as the next Imam and after Imam Ismail the Imammate passed to his son and down the line to the present 49th Imam.
May I suggest you join the list for further understanding of Imam & his Imammate: http://www.egroups.com/group/ismailism
To Khan Bahader:
::: The Sevener Shias
The division of the Shias into the Twelver and the Sevener sects occurred after their sixth Imam, Jafar al-Sadiq.
At the death of Jafar al-Sadiq in 765 AD,
- the Twelvers made his younger brother, Musa alKazim, their seventh Imam.
- A dissenting group, later called the Seveners, followed the line of Jafar al-Sadiq's direct descendents.
Since War al-Sadiq's own son, Ismail, had predeceased him, the Seveners recognized the new Imam in the son of Ismail named Muhammad al-Mahdi. For this reason the Severner Shias are also referred to as the Ismailis.
The Ismailis developed highly esoteric doctrines around their Imam, which could not be easily understood by the common man. The Ismailis continued to recognize their own Imams for the next 144 years, right through the period of the Abbasid Caliphate. Then in 909 AD, an Ismaili Imam by the name of Ubaydullah overthrew the Aghlabid dynasty centered in Tunis, took on the name of Ubadydullah al-Mahdi and established himself as the first Khalifah of the Fatimid dynasty in North Africa. In this way the institution of Khilafat was also established among the Ismailis.
Then at the death of the Fatimid Khalifah al-Mustansir in 1095 AD, the Ismailis divided into two sects.
- The ones who followed the younger son of al-Mustansir by the name of al-Musta'li who became the next khalifah, are called Musta'lis.
- The others who followed the elder son by the name of al-Nizar who was imprisoned, are called Nizaris.
1) The Nizari Ismailis
The Nizaris took their leader al-Nizar into a mountain fortress and for a number of years led a life of secrecy and terror. They were notorious for carrying out well planned assassinations of their enemies and opponents. In 1817 AD, one Nizari Ismaili Imam was given the title of Agha Khan by Qajar Shah of Iran. This Imam later moved to India where his dais or missionaries had considerable success in converting the local Hindu population to their doctrines. Since then the title of Agha Khan has been retained by the Nizari Ismailis for their Imams.
2) The Musta'ii Bohras
The Musta'lis continued to follow the direct line of al-Musta'li. But the visible line of Musta'li Imams ended in 1130 AD when al-Musta'li's son, al-Amir, died leaving only an infant son by the name of al-Tayyeb. The Fatimid Caliphate continued through the new Khalifah al-Hafiz who was the grandson of al-Mustansir. But since alHafiz and the other Khalifahs that followed him were not in direct line of descent from al-Musta'li, the Musta'li Shias did not recognize them as their Imams.
According to the Musta'li belief, the infant son of al-Amir is in hiding and is considered by them as the invisible Imam. The Musta'lis of Yemen managed to convert large numbers of Hindus in Gujrat, a province in western India. These converts are known in India and Pakistan as Bohras.
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