"Kafir" is neither sectarianism nor racism, it means non-believer, if you don't like it thats your personal problem, convert or something. And personally I have never encountered as much hate over religion, a means for peace and love, anywhere other than this place. I have the upmost respect for you as a person, be whatever religion, until you decide to insult me and my religion for reasons entwined entirely with personal issues.
I don't understand the problem people seem to have with Islam. I feel compelled to defend it as nobody else seems to be, probably becasue Im the only one stupid enough to rise to the bait. The matter of fact is that if you don't like the religion then simply don't follow it. I'm sure that it will suffer no great loss from either your noon-beliefs nor your disapproval. All religions are above petty emotions of ignorant people if they are devine. As I believe Islam is. That is my opinion. Without that I cannot call myself a muslim, why anybody else would have a problem with me finding a religion that truely makes me happy and helps make me a better person is beyond me.
If we start to discuss religion with truely unbiased eyes then I will be ready to re-participate in any debates. However the truth of the matter is that the manner in which ignorant people in this forum lie and insult others gives not only them but the whole idea of religion a bad name.
How is it that as a 16yr old, me and my hindu, christian, wicker and atheist friends are able to have much more reasoned and friendly debates in which understanding is formed comparred to the large majority of adults on this forum?? Its actually quite disturbing, religion is supposed to teach peoples how to better themselves, but by engaging in mud slinging contests from various corners of our religion divisions we are doing much the opposite. Out of interest I wonder how many people read and reply to what Ive written.
Fantoosh, If you don't believe that Islam promotes 'racial' equality - then don't believe it. It's as simple as that.
A non beleiver or the one who is pretending to beleive is a 'Kafir' and 'pagana'....may be this is what Quran means.
When Iran and Iraq fights, both the parties abuse each other of being 'Kafir' and 'pagana'. What Quran they have read?
Islam may mean 'submission', as they tell us very proudly, but the fact is that Islam is a totally politics and revenge based religion.
Whatever you shout of non racial purity, Muslims in practical have shown something entirly different. (I need nothing to add.)
By the way I doubt if any God could pronouce such words like 'pagana' .........
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
A non beleiver or the one who is pretending to beleive is a 'Kafir' and 'pagana'....may be this is what Quran means.
When Iran and Iraq fights, both the parties abuse each other of being 'Kafir' and 'pagana'. What Quran they have read?
Islam may mean 'submission', as they tell us very proudly, but the fact is that Islam is a totally politics and revenge based religion.
Whatever you shout of non racial purity, Muslims in practical have shown something entirly different. (I need nothing to add.)
By the way I doubt if any God could pronouce such words like 'pagana' .........
[/QUOTE]
My dear friend, my fellow human, if you will. You are wrong. Im afraid that Iraqis and Iranis are both shia majorities, so the question of them calling themselves "kafir" doesn't exist. The war that has been on going there, is because of land, much like the majority of wars. Both want "Kurdistan" along with the Kurds and the Turks. Its much more complicated than religion. It always is.
And if the koran means "kafir" to mean non believer then isn't that what it does mean?? I assure you they have read the same koran, and there is no other meaning that it can hold.
And the "fact " that you pronounced there is an entirely baseless and bigotted opinion (I have nothing to add).
Islam promotes more racial tolerance then any of the other religions, hindus have strict caste systems, as do buddhists and various other religions. The Kabba is the only place, I assure you, where all races bow their heads in front of God and are equal. Malcolm X, a rascist in every form wrote about how it felt, to be felt equal to his white and asian brothers and sisters., for the first vtime in his life. There must be a reason for Islam still being the worlds fastest growing religion in all corners of the world.
Once again I say, there may be many rascist "muslims" but that does not mean that Islam is a rascist religion. And its also note worthy of how you had no reply or reason for your bigotted remarks. We can merely tell you what the faith says, if in practice muslims get it wrong, that is less reflection upon their religion and more upon their character. remember idiocy sees no boundries in reguards to faith. However it is more reflective on you as a person if you continue to ignorantly insult a religion. Me and various others have explained the stance of Islam with reguards to the Koran and the practices of Hazrat Mohammed, if people continue to dis-believe then that is entirely their choice. As a human being I have done my duty by trying to educate you.
Remaining both ignorant and insulting is now a personal choice.
Yes, whoever doesnot accept your definitions is 'ignorant'.
Please show something in practical instead of steryotyped answers.
No doubt Hindus are castist and racist, and many other religions are not neat and clean. Donot worry, you are not alone!
Please do not ignore that Muslims have killed Muslims more than this credit could go to some other community.
I am ready to remain ignorant, you just stop a mutual blood shed.
I really admire the way you protect Islam against all odds.
Is it not really funny that when Muslims call each other 'kafir' they are not inspired by Quran? What you are trying to 'educate' or misleading? I am very careful.
No need to shout of peace and love, you can just express it without propaganda.
Anyone who refuses to appreciate my opinion and constantly puts forth points and examples that are both out of context and wrong is ignorant in my view, you dont have to agree with me, just to stop insulting my religion. Similarly I did not single hindus out as a "bad" religion, no doubt that all religious followers have been at odds and killed each other for centuries. That is no reflection on the religion, not everything can be neatly traced back to religion. My answers are stereotypical only in the sense that I defend my beliefs, and if you want me to slate my own religion to make them more "unique" then you will be waiting a long time, eternity seems to be a likely date.
And its that exact thing that is worrying, people are happy in their intolerance and ignorance. It is that and not religion which causes wars. And for your already enlightened information, sunnis and shias are not different races, they are deviations of Islam. Its a religious conflict within a religion, not between two races of people. To ask for a stop of murder and blood shed is to ask what every "Miss World" has asked for years, a perfect world. The only we can get closer to this is by tolerance and understanding. I am sure that wars did occur before the revelation of Islam. In fact Im sure my history teacher was babbling something about the Romans and conquering in some lesson.
And dear fellow- human, I am not shouting anything, I am merely clarifying aspects of my faith that seem to be confusing you. I have equal love for all those of an equal intelligence level. Im only human, don't blame god for my bad spelling and grammer but my indiffernce in various key english lessons.
Islam has been in India for the last 800+ years. But to this date, not a single
mullah in either Mecca or Medina has been an Indian muslim.
whay you saying saying muslim no racisum again again? give proof. I show proof many many proof. here.
1) why sunni beating shiyat and shiyat beating sunni? why why?
2) why pakistan many peapul no liking India for own parents parent ansetor but saying arab arab. why why? why shaming to saying all peapul muslim now but Hindu day before?
3) why honourary killing doing lot? becase biy from that groop this groop etc. why why?
4) why atacking atacking kashmir sating muslim bvhai bhai! why no say Hindu bhai bhai?
all racisum in their. not all muslim...I am saying only racisum muslims
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
whay you saying saying muslim no racisum again again? give proof. I show proof many many proof. here.
1) why sunni beating shiyat and shiyat beating sunni? why why?
2) why pakistan many peapul no liking India for own parents parent ansetor but saying arab arab. why why? why shaming to saying all peapul muslim now but Hindu day before?
3) why honourary killing doing lot? becase biy from that groop this groop etc. why why?
4) why atacking atacking kashmir sating muslim bvhai bhai! why no say Hindu bhai bhai?
all racisum in their. not all muslim...I am saying only racisum muslims
[/QUOTE]
Deer TomSawyer,
1) sunni beeting shiyat not racism. shiyat beeting sunni not racism. sunni beeting shiyat and shiyat beeting sunni yes secterianism.
2) pakistan peapul no hating indiya. pakistan peapul no saying arab arab. vee saying india pakistan pees good, not like kill and die in kashmir. peapul not like india poleesee in kashmir. peapul like india. peapul in pakistan say hritik hritik and shahrukh shahrukh no say arab arab.
3) honourary killing no arab culture. honourary killing yes indian culture. honourary killing no racism, yes sexism.
4) kashmir peapul no right to decide future, we say muslim bhai bhai. if kashmir peapul decide future live in peace vee say hindu muslim bhai bhai.
Racism in Hindu religion is decorated by the word ‘cast’. Roots of ‘cast hate’ are very much there in Hindu religion.
Hindus who have accepted this fact have progressed and many of them have successfully rejected this rotten mentality.
But Hindus, who blames Hindus for ‘cast mentality’ and want to keep the religion intact, have gone nowhere. They talk a lot of progress, love and peace, but remain in the centuries old garbage.
Have courage and detect the cracks in the fundaments! By blaming the followers you are only deceiving yourself and others.
Mr hiccup, it is very nice to note that you respect Hindu religion. You know they are idolaters. Do you oppose Quran?
Talking bad or good language does not procure any blood shedding. Find some other explanation!
(Ps, I have many very good friends from Muslim community. They are good not because they are Muslims, but because they are just good people.)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
Islam has been in India for the last 800+ years. But to this date, not a single
mullah in either Mecca or Medina has been an Indian muslim.
[/QUOTE]
janab y is there still a cast system in india between hindus even though hinduism is believed to be the oldest religion ever..... 2000+ years
mughal could have armed all the dalits when they were in control.
The Muslims are up in arms. . This time, against the ‘oppressors’ within their own community. Under the aegis of the Pasmanda Muslim Samaj, led by journalist-turned-activist Ali Anwar, backward and Dalit Muslims are planning to launch an agitation against Muslim leaders belonging to upper castes.
that word upper casters comes from the 'lables' that hindus give each other. being rich doesnt mean in islam that u r in an 'upper caster' and islam doesnt state that thereshold be a cast system... that is the society. where as hinduism has it in thier religion. so again i will ask u the same question.
why is there as cast system in hinduism ... a religion thousands of years older than islam?
dont twist inequality into a religious issue somethign that isalm condems hence the words muslim brothers and sisters.
tell me can the lower casts go to the same temple as the upper casts in hinduism? can the lower casts be 'touched' by the upper casts?
...... i know in islam it doesnt say u cant associate with poor people be they muslims or not. i knwo that when i go to mosq poor and the rich can pray.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waleed: *
that word upper casters comes from the 'lables' that hindus give each other. being rich doesnt mean in islam that u r in an 'upper caster' and islam doesnt state that thereshold be a cast system... that is the society. where as hinduism has it in thier religion. so again i will ask u the same question.
why is there as cast system in hinduism ... a religion thousands of years older than islam?
dont twist inequality into a religious issue somethign that isalm condems hence the words muslim brothers and sisters.
tell me can the lower casts go to the same temple as the upper casts in hinduism? can the lower casts be 'touched' by the upper casts?
...... i know in islam it doesnt say u cant associate with poor people be they muslims or not. i knwo that when i go to mosq poor and the rich can pray.
[/QUOTE]
yeah dalits are waiting for mushruff to end our caste system.
even according to caste syystem brahmins only can be preists
so they cant study to be doctor or other profession.
does it happen?
so u dont have an answer koi baat nahin. dont go and put other ppls relgion down if u cant stand up for ur religion or even understand it... i wasnt putting hinduism down but infact trying to point out the very flaw imbeded in ur religion which u where trying to point out in islam. but of course islam doesnt have it ..... ppl dont and cant represent a religion because they make thier own choices. there fore dont generalise. as i said islam does not equal or teach racial inequality yet hinuism does. i rest my case. gd day to u
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waleed: *
so u dont have an answer koi baat nahin. dont go and put other ppls relgion down if u cant stand up for ur religion or even understand it... i wasnt putting hinduism down but infact trying to point out the very flaw imbeded in ur religion which u where trying to point out in islam. but of course islam doesnt have it ..... ppl dont and cant represent a religion because they make thier own choices. there fore dont generalise. as i said islam does not equal or teach racial inequality yet hinuism does. i rest my case. gd day to u
[/QUOTE]
i dont care baout religen if it is in the way of progress weather is islam or hinduism we should try rectify. no system is perfect we should be able to borrow ideas wherever it is . dont want to be a prisoner of any religen or any other system.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *
Deer TomSawyer,
1) sunni beeting shiyat not racism. shiyat beeting sunni not racism. sunni beeting shiyat and shiyat beeting sunni yes secterianism.
[/QUOTE]
what you re saying now? one day I writing inform here about sunni shiit etc and you writing this not this aur that not this etc...one day more what hapen? bludy bombing kiyaana masjid mae? ab bholna!
The roots of Racism in Islam started to grow from the time of the third caliph of Hazrat Usman. In the beginning it was the conflict between Umayyads and Banu Hashims(Abbasis).
And when Abbasids caliphs started to weaken, we saw Turks and persians become powerful and degrading the arabic culture and language.
Infact, Islam's history is full of racial conflicts.
If you want to know more, go and read the Muslim rule of Spain where muslims got kicked out because they were not united and always kept fighting each other basis of racial and class issues.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Code_Red: *
Racism is new in islam, may be just two or three centuries old. .....
[/QUOTE]
Try at the dawn of Islam! ........
"Abu Darda reported that the Holy Prophet said: Allah created Adam when he created him (sic). Then He stroke (sic) his right shoulder and took out a white race as if they were seeds, and He stroke (sic) his left shoulder and took out a black race as if they were coals. Then He said to those who were in his right side: Towards paradise and I don't care. He said to those who were on his left shoulder: Towards Hell and I don't care. - Ahmad" (Mishkat ul-Masabih, translated by Karim, v. iii, p. 117)
On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved. (Âl 'Imran 3:106)
And on the Day of Resurrection thou (Muhammad) seest those who lied concerning Allah with their faces blackened. Is not the home of the scorners in hell? (Az-Zumar 39:60)
... The apostle said, "Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b. al-Harith!" He was a sturdy black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks. He used to come and talk to the apostle and listen to him and then carry what he had said to the hypocrites. It was he who said: "Muhammad is all ears: if anyone tells him anything he believes it." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulallah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad by A. Guillaume, page 243)
Muslims try to understand these verses usually as being metaphorical without racist connotations. Are they??
^
Nature is racist too, only the lack of light makes everything seem black. When its dark we can't see! Yellow and white light makes things visible... white is a preferred color... racism!