Re: Islamophobia
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Re: Islamophobia
Not much you can do other then keep a low profile. People are scared and angry... Be glad its not worse. Minorities and even some Muslims get it worse in Muslim countries. Cant really complain when Muslim countries themselves treat people like trash.
Epic logic fail. With that logic non muslims in muslim countries cannot complain until islamophobia/discrimination/sexism is rooted of western countries?
Why am i responsible for the goons in power in muslim majority countries?
With self defeating arguments like these..we are our own worst enemies.
Re: Islamophobia
Epic logic fail. With that logic non muslims in muslim countries cannot complain until islamophobia/discrimination/sexism is rooted of western countries?
Why am i responsible for the goons in power in muslim majority countries?
With self defeating arguments like these..we are our own worst enemies.
Valid point, those goons DONT have anything to do with you. (Although, we love to collectively take credit for Muslims who do good things dont we?!?! We never disown them.)
It would be easier to play the "those goons have nothing to do with me" card if there weren't horrible things happening in Muslim countries against minorities is my point. Its just easier when your not giving your enemies ammo to hurl at you... Another words, its easier for people to be convinced that I as an individual and we as a community are not a threat, if mobs of religious fanatics ARENT beating to death and then burning Christians in Pakistan.
And while Non-Muslims in Muslim countries CAN complain about whatever they like, they would look rather hypocritical in light of the crimes they themselves are committing... No one knows who "I" am, they only see who "we" are.
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Re: Islamophobia
So in essence you are saying;
1) non muslims in muslim majority nations are hypocrites for complaining about thier discrimination as are muslim minorities. As in no one has a right to complain.
2) that all muslims need to accept responsibility for actions of muslims around the world.. Even if they disagree with those actions. And all christians and jews and hindus etc around the world have to accept responsibility for the crimes of their leaders?
Hmmm for some reason... Im not buying it.
Re: Islamophobia
So in essence you are saying;
1) non muslims in muslim majority nations are hypocrites for complaining about thier discrimination as are muslim minorities. As in no one has a right to complain.
2) that all muslims need to accept responsibility for actions of muslims around the world.. Even if they disagree with those actions. And all christians and jews and hindus etc around the world have to accept responsibility for the crimes of their leaders?
Hmmm for some reason... Im not buying it.
im saying it would be much easier to convince others that we arent a threat, if there weren't far worse discrimination in Muslim majority states.
Muslims do think of themselves as an "ummah," so there should be sense of collective responsibility when Muslims around the world commit a crime. It is hard to complain about a situation that your community faces, when your community is also committing the same crimes against others.
You yourself said we should be protesting ISIS. Isnt that an acknowledgement that you take some responsibly for their actions? If they have nothing to do with you, then why do you think its so important for you to demonstrate that you are against them?
Re: Islamophobia
Nah not buying.
No i dont accept any responsibility sorry. Esp considering isis was born in camp bucca during iraq invasion then funded and trained by them and thier gulf /turkish allies.
I would protest thier actions in order to dissociate from them... Not to acknowledge collective guilt by association fgs.. But to show the ignorant folks where we stand. Their ignorance is not our responsibilty either but every little fight against anti islam propaganda helps!
Re: Islamophobia
Nah not buying.
No i dont accept any responsibility sorry. Esp considering isis was born in camp bucca during iraq invasion then funded and trained by them and thier gulf /turkish allies.
I would protest thier actions in order to dissociate from them... Not to acknowledge collective guilt by association fgs.. But to show the ignorant folks where we stand. Their ignorance is not our responsibilty either but every little fight against anti islam propaganda helps!
Well good for u then... after today's attack in California you can happily dissociate yourself from another muslim doing something stupid.
Re: Islamophobia
The way to decrease Islamaphobia is to get yourself out there and let your neighbors and coworkers know who you are and what you stand for and rather, dont stand for. I am active on social media and will be doing an interview soon with a non-muslim and I can tell you that people want to know what muslims truly believe about such atrocities, if they support them, things about our faith, etc. Insulating ourselves is not going to help. Some people I know make it a duty to go and introduce herself to several neighbors so they know who she is. It starts with just one. Then you can use social media outlets to let your views be known. I dont think we as muslims need to defend Islam, because it can do it itself, what we can do if we choose is to let others know that we as followers of Islam know we have a great faith and it doesnt teach us to do the horrific things that some do in its name. With the media spreading wrong things and always bleak things about muslims and Islam, we should have our own form of spreading the goodwill that we can via our use of media, etc. I've had several non-muslims ask me why muslims dont get the message out that Islam doesnt stand for terrorism, why are the muslims quiet, etc. I try to tell them sometimes that its not that we are quiet, its that we dont get the coverage, but if we were more vocal, they couldnt ignore us.
Re: Islamophobia
We all are aware what kind of dawa training salafies can give. Its a fact now wahabies are destroying world peace and most of them are terrorists. Therefore, its better to monitor and superwise the mosques before terrorist start appearing from every nook and cranny.
Re: Islamophobia
Middle eastern whabies are so extremist that shi'ites in those areas follow strict taqayya. If they dont follow taqayya, they face exteme bigotry and racism at workplace and other areas.
One of my cousins took a job interview in dubai and the gora told him that the Sheikh calls the shots here, and we are not allowed to hire somebody whose first name is syed.
Re: Islamophobia
One of our family friends had a cigarette flung on her while waiting outside for a ride this week - and this is an elderly women. With all of the other shameful and hateful acts being committed on Muslims, I am just wondering how do we counter react? Muslims seem to have it doubly scary where on one hand were fearful with the rest of the world about attacks being carried out anytime and on the other being held responsible in the eyes of the public for something we have no part in. How can we counter Islamophobia in the west? Are we doing enough or should we be doing more to counter this hateful rhetoric in a productive way? What do those solutions/actions look like? There was a Washington vigil that was held this evening for the victims in the Paris attacks but it recieved no coverage. What else can we do? Like many I am just trying to make sense of everything happening as a result of what happened in Paris and just want to know how other people here feel.
Sorry if this is a repeat thread, please merge if so..
Have you never seen or heard about the Muslims spreading hate against the west while living in western countries?
As long as that continues I don't think you can do anything to counter that.
Re: Islamophobia
Re: Islamophobia
Sorry, super late response here but this is what Ive come to realize about all of this. Being silent and doing nothing is worse and part of the major problem in my opinion now and the reason I believe this whole rhetoric has been able to spread. Just being good Muslims and citizens isnt doing enough anymore. Non Muslims think that by being quiet, mainstream Muslims somehow condone these crazy acts of violence and therefore in a way support it. I never really dealt with having to explain my religion to people in Canada growing up because the classrooms were always diverse and maybe it was because it was a different time. Now after living in the US, I find myself in general conversation having to further explain something about my belief or culture and people generally are very unaware of our practices and how they play a role in our lives. They just don’t get it because their culture is so different and isnt necessarily influenced directly by their religious beliefs, if they have any. I have to agree with Ma Mooli as well. Disassociating from these extremist people can only be done by standing up against them and isolating THEM not allowing them to isolate us in countries we reside happily and freely in (which is something I’m sure all of us acknowledge.) Unfortunately sometimes people who scream the loudest are still the ones that make the most noise and can cause the most damage or do the most good, but I think at this point most have to try. If we don’t speak up, don’t we let that kind of anti Islamic rhetoric to thrive and both sides to win (referring to both sides as extremist as well as bigots and ignorance) over us, who in majority are just trying to live normal lives?
Came across this on Facebook and I think it’s worth sharing because I think it shows how much just having rational conversations without getting emotional and offended about our religion can change some peoples minds. There will always be crazies around but I think positive people if out in large numbers can do a lot of damage control here.
Hope the link works from fb, it’s a public post.
Re: Islamophobia
im saying it would be much easier to convince others that we arent a threat, if there weren't far worse discrimination in Muslim majority states.
Muslims do think of themselves as an "ummah," so there should be sense of collective responsibility when Muslims around the world commit a crime. It is hard to complain about a situation that your community faces, when your community is also committing the same crimes against others.
You yourself said we should be protesting ISIS. Isnt that an acknowledgement that you take some responsibly for their actions? If they have nothing to do with you, then why do you think its so important for you to demonstrate that you are against them?
I both agree and disagree with this. Yes, it would really be easier to convince the rest of the world that majority Muslims are not a bunch of violent loonies if there wasnt so much violence and ignorance within our own states but you and I as Muslims/Pakistanis etc understand that there's more to it than just religion playing a role in that kind of scenario. The west doesn't understand this other perspective and is quite in a bubble about it. They sometimes refuse to or have no way of understanding the deeper issues because they don't live them. So much of it is politics and so much of it is socio-economics as well as the war between all the different branches of Islam etc etc. I think acknowledging the problem is good but it's also something much bigger than you and I. I don't live in Pakistan and cannot speak to much to the discrimination people face there except with some understanding from those from whom I personally know have gone through some sort of persecution of their own. So I won't try to dissect the issue but that's my general thought on it. The only reason it's important here to have to now have to prove ourselves against ignorance against Islam is because there's so much back lash against good Muslims around the world and its more than just our religion being tarnished, it's also our general safety being compromised. So many people, especially those that are "obvious" Muslims have been targeted for no good reason. Some guy and wife decide to shoot up his workplace for their own sick minded belief and yet people are asking the entire Muslim population "why'd you Muslims do it?".... Why are we answering for individuals when we have no clue who they are or what they believed.
Re: Islamophobia
I both agree and disagree with this. Yes, it would really be easier to convince the rest of the world that majority Muslims are not a bunch of violent loonies if there wasnt so much violence and ignorance within our own states but you and I as Muslims/Pakistanis etc understand that there's more to it than just religion playing a role in that kind of scenario. The west doesn't understand this other perspective and is quite in a bubble about it. They sometimes refuse to or have no way of understanding the deeper issues because they don't live them. So much of it is politics and so much of it is socio-economics as well as the war between all the different branches of Islam etc etc. I think acknowledging the problem is good but it's also something much bigger than you and I. I don't live in Pakistan and cannot speak to much to the discrimination people face there except with some understanding from those from whom I personally know have gone through some sort of persecution of their own. So I won't try to dissect the issue but that's my general thought on it. The only reason it's important here to have to now have to prove ourselves against ignorance against Islam is because there's so much back lash against good Muslims around the world and its more than just our religion being tarnished, it's also our general safety being compromised. So many people, especially those that are "obvious" Muslims have been targeted for no good reason. Some guy and wife decide to shoot up his workplace for their own sick minded belief and yet people are asking the entire Muslim population "why'd you Muslims do it?".... Why are we answering for individuals when we have no clue who they are or what they believed.
Its not an easy thing to deal with... No simple answers.
Re: Islamophobia
You don't need to accept responsibility for a crime that you did not commit, but you can't be ignorant about how people are getting radicalized by a small group of people within our own community. Certain preachers and certain masjids are involved, but more than a location, it is a thought process that is global. People do not understand their own religion. They have made Islam into a cult. And this behavior isn't just seen in the ISIS-controlled areas.
You see it openly in Pakistan with certain families and individuals. In certain masjids, we call "hardliner" masjids, ex. lal masjid, it is formally taught as "Islam", but they really have a political world view that is more like fascism. I.e. there should be a caliphate and they get to control everything about you down to how you dress. ISIS just takes it a step further with atrocities like sexual slavery and enticing girls to come out to their territory and assign them a husband. Recent NYtimes article based on confessions of such girls who were brainwashed then escaped reveals that iddat was not even observed and they were handed as a "wife" to another jihadi fighter. When they realized they were actually being treated as prostitutes they got out of there.
But the underlying "hardliner" mentality is there.
You don't need to take responsibility for a crime you didn't commit, but you have a responsibility to get involved in the education of your youngsters, know who is teaching your kids Islam, know who they're talking to online (biggest source of radicalization actually), and what they're reading online and engage your friends and family in religious discussions, and help them get out of misunderstanding Islam when you notice they're drifting towards dangerous interpretations (ex. No, Islam doesn't allow sex slaves, and here is why).
Which means you need to get more educated about your deen.
Given how many muslims in the world there are, and how a bulk are illiterate and can't even read a story book, good luck on that.
Re: Islamophobia
We all are aware what kind of dawa training salafies can give. Its a fact now **wahabies **are destroying world peace and **most of them are terrorists. **Therefore, its better to monitor and superwise the mosques before terrorist start appearing from every nook and cranny.
lol... and I thought only red-necks were ignorants.
Re: Islamophobia
^ So you don't think most wahabbis would advocate for beheadings for freedom of speech (i.e. recent cases on death row in Saudi) or barbaric acts like cutting off the hands for thievery? And where does the Hudood Ordinance come from? It has high wahabbi support. A rape victim needing 4 witnesses? How is that "Islamic"?? It's not Islamic, it's a wahabbi supported rule.
Everywhere where there is ignorance, oppression, and abuse, there are wahabbis to be found.
Why don't you go to Swat and ask them what Taliban reign was like while they took over for a few months bringing down the Pakistani flag and putting up their own flag?
But you would support something like that. Someone should report you to the FBI.
Re: Islamophobia
More wahabbi inspired rulings: top clerics in Pakistan stating that marriage to underage women is permissable.
Meanwhile , no one cares that the Quran directly states that consent is needed from a woman for marriage, and therefore she must be at a consenting age.
Re: Islamophobia
I quoted his post of “wahabies” destroying world piece, and here you are arguing about Saudi laws/Wahabi-sharia