Islamic republic or not?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Islamic republic or not?

imanwalla

I didn't make any proclamation...I was just asking some questions on some terms that u stupid islamists use all the time, but have no clue what they mean.

I know all about u guys, thats y i say, there is no islaimc society or islamic state. It is all illusion. Islam is a private affais b/w a man/woman and his/her god. At social leve or state level, the values r shared b/w all societies and countries, jewish, christians, white or blacks.

UK muslims live in a racist society and ghettoes. They r uneducated ppl, do menial jobs, and thats y they want everything seperate. If they dont like UK, y not they come to Afghainstan and Pakistan?

Glam My Icecream
22

Re: Islamic republic or not?

well that is just your leftist extremist communist opinion.

You are some far left person who does not even live in pakistan, yet want to impose western viewpoint on our pakistan.

Lets have Demoraratic elections and who ever wins the elections would make the country’s laws. ANd in a democratic election the traditional elements and not some brown leftist sahib like you will win.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

Pak Brave Heart = Pakistani Bill O’Reilly

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

buddy,

I am a traditional educated pak. We traditional paks are the true main stream. THe so called “moderates” on the media are actually bunch of extremist leftist communists who are hiding behing the lebel of “moderates” and attacking the traditional values of our country.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

traditional values like Heera Mandi, Jehad, Panchayat ruled gang rape of women, marital rape, etc. etc?

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

^ they call those "moral values" in the states.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

those are the tradional values of hindu india. Plus they also have a tradition of sati in which they burn a widow with her husband. They also have a tradition of ki-lling 2000 minorities in gujrat. Not to mention the famous indian tradition of p!ss drinking.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

First of all I take offence to be associated with those telle tubbies called mma…so next time try being mature for a change.

Next, when you show your attitude it basically demonstrates an extreme case of shallowness deperately seeking recognition, having no basic idea of the subject makes things even worse for your case…tsk tsk…you wannnabe liberal yet act like a mma walla…no patience or ability to understand others viewpoint…

Phelay sumajke ao ke society hothi kia hai, phir sawal pucho…shahid kuch aqal mai ajai…warna case bhoth kharab hai…sorry ub dua ka time hai dawa ka naheen…:smokin2:

29

Re: Islamic republic or not?

ur screen name ‘fart-guru’ is very appropriate…I should have read it carefully.

i apologize to others for the bad atmosphere.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

:crying: little soulboy needs a huggiee…
that was just too eazeeee…boyyyyy…comon Mr wannabe…is that it? tsk tsk tsk…
no more wise ‘cracks’? …what happened to your 'soooociaateee??:bukbuk:

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

answer lies in the question imanwalla, ask yourself how much you practise your religion? not attacking you, its a simple fact , we can wrestle all we want on forums but truth is we are not practising our own religion thats why we escape with supposedly witty come backs you already see in your threads.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

[QUOTE]
If they dont like UK, y not they come to Afghainstan and Pakistan?
[/QUOTE]

plus the oda tings u said - if only Pakistan was an islamic state den no problem den some pakistanis wouldnt mind goin back- even though im british born id rather go to an islamic state but apparently tehre is none- the world at the moment is ruled by money, money, money and that all i tink lost soul is on about - maybe realy u have lost ur soul- but i dont know why u saying so called islamists are bad- the defintion of an islamist to u is big beared mullah runnin round da place- to me its the ordinary muslims u see who just want a bit of justice. ill pray to Allah to giv u a bit of hadiyat and that u actually u learn about Islam or even if ur muslim at all?

now wat u said bout muslims in britain who r unedcuated, poor and etc. now let me see who dis this?- first it was the whiteman who came to our country and took our lands, den we formed an illusional islamic state which was never islamic at all and never been at all. if ur talkin bout muslims from mirpur in kashmir or attock in PAk or even the bengalis , den ur right dey r poor and dey are uneductated but at least they have a bit of self respect and dont giv their religion up that very easily. maybe they all dont read namaz or dey everyting perfect and for one ting i cant blame them - but they never ever say that they woudlnt mind having an islamci state

actually i wanna read ur views on wat a society is den will find out

33

Re: Islamic republic or not?

wrong, NO country at this moment on the face of the earth that claims to be islamic is islamic. all are kuffar. they do not implement islamic sharia fully and thus they are KUFFAR. their claims have no value, saudia arabia is the first in line. it is not only kafir, but it is a taghuut, something which is worshipped, and truely, a large number of people worship the saudi government and thus king fahad and his govt is an idol worshipped besides Allah, so it must be bought down.

Have you seen those (hyprocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Tâghût (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaitân (Satan) wishes to lead them far astray. (An-Nisa 4:60)

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (An-Nisa 4:65)

Surely, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur’ân) in truth that you might judge between men by that which Allâh has shown you (i.e. has taught you through Divine Inspiration), so be not a pleader for the treacherous. (An-Nisa 4:105)

And We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allâh has revealed, such are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers - of a lesser degree). (Al-Ma’idah 5:45)

And so judge (you O Muhammad SAW) between them by what Allâh has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad SAW) far away from some of that which Allâh has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allâh’s Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Fâsiqûn (rebellious and disobedient to Allâh). (Al-Ma’idah 5:49)

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliyâ’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliyâ’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliyâ’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers and unjust). (Al-Ma’idah 5:51)
O you who believe! Take not for Auliyâ’ (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allâh if you indeed are believers. (Al-Ma’idah 5:57)

pay attention to the last ayah, allah says do not take them as allies and fear allah if you are believers, so if some one take them as allies, then it means that he is not a believer. wallah o alam

so how many of those so called government have not fallen under these ayahs? some take jews and christians as allies against other muslims, while others creat laws that go against the islamic sharia, and most of the governments do both, so they are guilty of kufr according to the book of Allah.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

Dear Immanwalla,
When a state is ruled by a majority and that majority defines its existence according to the principles of a religious edict through constitutional means, then that state or society will be labeled according to its basic premise. In this case Muslim (Islamic). Hindustan is a hindu majority country, even though it is secular as per their constitution, it still is regarded as a hindu majority state. Same goes for Israel as jewish, Italy Christian and Russia. Whether they are practicing jews, christians or muslims is a separate matter to be decided between them and their God on day of judgement. Who are we to judge whether someone is a good muslim or not? Iam sure you agree on that point.

Allah has not defined what a Islamic state should look like niether did the prophet leave any strict guideline to follow. Had they deemd it so important Allah would have stated it clearly in the Quran or had the message delivered via the prophet.

All of the above ayat that you have quoted basically provides a framework in which muslims are expected to perform. Nowhere do they state or imply this is a framework for how a state is to be run.

As for the ayat dealing with jews & christians, that cannot be used in isolation otherwise question regarding marriages to Ahle-Kithaab becomes difficult to explain.

Let me ask you this question, what if a state is established which is governed by Shariat, yet its people indulge in all sorts of Bidaat, shirk and sins of all sorts. Would that state still be called Islamic?

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

cant we, as a nation, just concentrate more on making our individual lives and everyday actions more Islamic instead of wondering and whining over whether or not Pakistan is or should be an Islamic state and doing 'ijtehaad' of sorts on what Islam teaches about a state's being Islamic...?

nain....
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Re: Islamic republic or not?

[QUOTE]
Allah has not defined what a Islamic state should look like niether did the prophet leave any strict guideline to follow. Had they deemd it so important Allah would have stated it clearly in the Quran or had the message delivered via the prophet.

[/QUOTE]
my dear fart guru u r now jus being plain ignorant their that tehre is no such thing of an islamic state, let me explain, an islamic state is where islam the main religion is practised becomes an islamic state. The holy prophet (SAW) was the leader of the Islamic state whuch was esatblished during his period of hstory. he (SAW) gave us the perfect model of an islamic state. let me say this -how can u perform ur duties fully if teh state is not islamic, for example, if teh state is islamic, all teh islamic laws are implemented and so u can complete ur task as a muslim socially. remember islam is complete way of life not just something that u leave at home.

[QUOTE]
Let me ask you this question, what if a state is established which is governed by Shariat, yet its people indulge in all sorts of Bidaat, shirk and sins of all sorts. Would that state still be called Islamic?
[/QUOTE]
now this question is quite ambigious because when an islamic state is established, the evilness will be got ridden of slowly and gradually, not overnight.
remember islam has two parts to it in terms of politics:- how it affects you and how it affects other as a whole. now if a particular person is to for example, smoke weed, then if it affects you -the state must get rid of this. education is also important here because teaching islam to young individuals is as must and tehfore we will have a state with young educated muslims who will know teh difference between right and wrong,

lastly if an islamic state was to exist then it would beenfit us, but i have no idea why a muslim woudlnt support a islamic state over a secualr one. all the rules and regulation have been laid down in the Quran.

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

You have very conviniently side stepped the question, I repeat state governed by Sharia has its people living lives of sin, is it still Islamic? I’ll give you my opnion for whatever it is worth. No. Islam is not a set of rules which once established will make everything OK. What people tend to ignore is the that religion has form and spirit, you cannot have one and not the other. Unfortunately, you and others like you would emphasize the ‘form’ but have nothing for spirit, thus the constant griping of not having proper Islamic states.

Holy Prophet left behind many examples, but nowhere has he stated how to form and run a government. Iam surprised you talk about my ignorance yet demonstrate an abundance itself. If the Prophet knew what was needed, then why was there a problem of lineage after his death? Why did he not nominate anyone? Yet you claim others are ignorant?

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

Leave everyone else in Pakistan…but why can’t u stop deleting my posts? Why can’t u develop some tolerance inside u?

how many posts have u deleted so far ? and why?

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

"islamic republic" is an oxymoron. because:

islamic - requires that Allah be supreme power

republic - requires that the citizens have supreme power over everything else.

(eg: the shari'a doesn't let people make laws; it considers changing divine laws by people to be a blasphemy)

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Re: Islamic republic or not?

u go and read quran 1st then come here and post