Then what do you mean by saying that? you mean that is not applicable anymore?
Yes, today's muslims have proved that shariyah is not relevent anymore now, thats why muslims prefer to write laws for themselves rather than implementing ALLAHa's laws. Cant U see that?
Yes, today's muslims have proved that shariyah is not relevent anymore now, thats why muslims prefer to write laws for themselves rather than implementing ALLAHa's laws. Cant U see that?
no no no....this is not correct....large amount of Sharai matters have been integrated in almost every Islamic nation...for example rights of women...family laws...etc etc
This is yet another discussion where falsehoods are being propagated in the name of religion.
Just remember the BASIC fact.
100% of Islamic scholars (of national stature) were AGAINST the formation of Pakistan and all of these Islamic scholars considered Jinnah as Kafir (or at least a Muslim of the lowest level of belief).
So the fact is that
Either
Or
Thus #2 must be true.
Dude, round truths are whole lies.
a) Neither Jinnah nor his counterparts on the Indian side truly wanted independence, but equal rights withn the commenwealth as subjects of the Queen. Jinnah was setup to be a Governer General...not a prime minister, nor a President. Opposition of the scholars should be taken in this light. OF COURSE their tune is going to change when Pakistan as an independent nation became a reality.
b) Jinnah had made reference to an Islamic state, but denied he wanted a theocratic state. Other idoelogues equally important to the Pakistan movement, e.g. Iqbal, definitely wanted an Islamic state. Nobody wanted the Mullahs to rule. If that is what is meant by "non-theocratic", then yes. Jinnah did squat to squash Shariah-compliant, and Shariah-based legislation, which off the bat eliminates the possibility of Jinnah as an exponent for a secularized Pakistan.
Re: ISLAMIC LAW
To All here
To put it succintly, all the elaborate discussions on how to implement a system of governance in Pakistan or anywhere in the world can not bare fruit unless the subjects of the system understand the principles upon which the system of governance is being built.
The reason that every single implementation of a system of governance in compliance with Islam has failed in the recent history is because the muslims simply are not up to the challange of reforming themselves according to the funadmental principles of what they believe.
The reason why American democracy thus far has been successful in their country is because the people under that system conform to the principles that underscores their system of governance not that it is morally superior or better or anything in comparison to other ideologies but simply because the system is in harmony with the views of the people.
Muslims must first and foremost have fundamentally correct Islamic views for any system of governance to work in compliance with Islam. If the people are right and understand the social order of their society according to Quran, the problems with their system of governance will eventually get eradicated.
now will you please answer the question or you think that this question is also a conspiracy against the democracy and is supported by IK, NS, JUI, JI and MQM
These scumbags have JI, JUI, IK and NS support, you either dream alot or you are so dumb that you cannot think beyond you nose... these scumbag never stood their ground, in swat they could have resisted more, but they were on run from day one, In wazirstan story is bit different but still they are on run.. now i don't know which world you live in, please come back in reality and please try not to accuse people because yoy don't like them... this JIYALA type behaviour will get you no good...
You asked me about Quaid's views on secular type government and I provided you exactly what you needed. These words defined more than Secularism. These words never meant that he was going to impose Shariah Laws in Pakistan. Why this has created so much pain....?
It is you who has to answer me. What is the difference between your Shariah Law and Taliban's Shriah Laws who practically implemented in past in their domain? Why Taliban are fighting with the army? Are they on suicidal mission?
I have opened a thread regarding JI, JUI, NS and IK, you never visited and said anything. Now tell me why they have not condemned these bombings by Taliban and others? (Some bombings like Peshawar Taliban claimed that they had not done it). Indirectly these Scumbags (JI, JUI, NS and IK) are supporting these bombings and attacks. Isn't it? It appears that you support one of the parties above, you called me JIYALA (a personal attack), what should I call you?
I think you shouldn't be personal and keep the discussions in proper perspective without involving personally. Will you?
Your views regarding a sharia system are more liberal than a person demanding secular system. What I understand from all what you have posted:
Thats is shariah system... and there no liberal system than the Shariah System..
1) You want to have a system based on American democratic system, where there will be one man one vote irrespective of gender, piety, religion, and ethnicity. Khalifa will be answerable to people unlike Afghan taliban system where khalifa was all powerful answerable to no one.
Exactly...
2) Your system will give complete religious freedom do everyone. People will be free to follow whatever religion they like.
This is what Religion says..
3) State will provide equal opportunities to everyone irrespective of their religion, piety and gender. Means a non muslim or a women will have equal opportunity to become Khalifa in your sharia as equality will be the basis of your sharia compliant state.
No... you misunderstood me their, in Islamic Shariah, only the person who believes in Islam can become Khalifah, as it is Islamic Shariah which supposed to implemented
4) Everyone will have access to equal opportunities in the field of education. Every kind of education will be provided to everyone. People will be free to get relgious education according to their belief system and no particular religious education will be imposed on anyone.
Yup, infact i personally believe one should have seek information on different religion and pick one of them to follow by his choice and not because he was born in particular religion..
5) State will not interfere in private lives of anyone as long as they don't disturb the society. Anyone drinking alchol at home without disturbing the society will be allowed to do so. Similarly what happens inside someone private life will not be the concern of the sharia compliant government. In short no one will not be punished for any sins which do not disturb the society.
Yes as long as they are not doing it in public and they are not conspiring against the society/govt. but they do have to pay for their sins in the after lives..
6) People will be able to impeach the Khalifa if they think he is not sharia compliant based on all these points.
BY impeachment i do not mean any kind of blood-coup, it is simple impeachment of the Khalifah were he had to answer for his bad-deeds..
7) Under your Islamic Shariah state, Hindu, Jews, Christians, non-believers and others enjoy their freedom and their security is responsibility of Muslim Govt. hence, Hindus, will have all the freedom they need to build temples and manufacture idols to worship.
Yes
8) Any sort of music, paintings, entertainment, cinema, sports, cultural activity will be allowed as long as it is not vulgar. Definition of vulgarity will be according to the collective wisdom of the people and not dictated by some religious doctrine.
Only if the collective wisdom is based on Religious doctrine...
9) People will be able to dress, shave beards, and indulge freelu in any kind of fashion as they desire provided it is not vulgar, and again the definition of vulgarity will not be according to the opinion of a single person but rather dependant on collective wisdom of the people.
There is no specific dress-code in Islam, however, any dress which is decent is acceptable in Islam... aging collective wisdom had to be in accordance with the shariah..
You agree with all above mentioned points and adopt system based on all these above mentioned points and call it a sharia system. As a secular person I pledge 100% support to you that please go ahead with this kind of sharia system. The only thing is take this list to any relgious aalim, mufti, maulana, or zakir. Please get it endorsed from him that this is actually sharia system. I think every secular person in this world irrespective of gender or religion will rally behind such a maulana to get this kind of shariat implemented.
No i don't think so the result has been 100%, as i have said above, the collective wisdom shall be in line of religious doctrine of Islam...
Now no molana or Mufti will endorse above suggestions for Khilafah, as it will be the last day for their jobs.. under Islamic System all the mosques and Madrassas shall be under direct Govt. Control, there will be no more moqsues in the every street have Friday sermon or their own. Mosques will turn back to its initial role i.e. community center, where the members of community will gather five times a day to offer prayer and if necessary then discuss the matter faced by their community or any community member..
Mosques shall no longer belong to any particular cult/sect... all mosques shall be for muslims and if anyone have problem to offer prayer in such mosques he is most welcome to stay at home. Mosques and Madrasas based on cult shall be demolished and the founder/financer of the same shall be held under the charges of spreading dis-unity in the Islamic brotherhood.
Most of Molanas, mufties and so-called aalim are aware of above things, now why should they reckon anything like that... It is not that only non-muslim forces are against Khilafah, but our so-called aalims are against it by all their heart and power...
So you have your wish granted for a support of sharia system. The only thing needed is to get this list endorsed from one single and I repeat one single religious personality that whatever you are advocating is actually sharia. Please post the name of this maulana here and I don't think anyone will oppose the implementation of such a sharia system!!!
You have a simple task. You need just one endorsement!
I am working on it... have two fronts at a time, it would take sometime but i am sure i'll be able to convey the message
When I discuses about islam, I usually like to refer to only holy quran and sahih ahadith. If U like my way, than plz give some authentic Islamic reference rather than talking about any book written by human beings.
pI have checked ur link above, but I m not sure whether this answers the question which was presented to U. for ur convinience I repeat that again.
The question is will the shariyah government control how we dress? willl pakistani women be allowed to dress in the way they are dressing themselves now? Its not only about privacy or entering anyone's home or simply spying on others.
There is no specific dress which represent Islam!!! Islam have only given a dress-code, nothing more, the dress suppose to be decent and shall not provoke or show the body parts/shape to unconcerned persons... now this apply to both genders male and females...
I m afraid U are wrong. If U consider urself an Alim than its okay, if U dont than plz consult one regarding building new places of worship. I dont think that ALLAH'S laws gives anyone permission to build any place of worship except a Mosque. This happens in kuffar governments only that everyone is free to build his or her place of worship.
I don't know if you are aalim or not and i don't know on what basis you have drawn this conclusion that in Islam it is not allowed to build places of worships for non-muslim.. yes it is not allowed for non-muslims to visit Makkah and Madina.. but rest yes they can have their places of worship...
I m afraid U are again wrong. Shias have terrible differences with Hazrat Abu Bakr RA and Hazrat Umar RA. Plz confirm that anyone who wont recognize these two prominent sahabis will have right to live peacefully in shariyah ruled state.
Lets go one block back, Christains and Jews have serious issues with the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), they don't believe in His Prophet-hood, hence he is a liar according to their doctrine, still they are allowed to live in Islamic state, they are allowed to practise their religion..
Same goes to shias, if they think that it is their religious duty to slander personalities of others, and they think without doing it they cannot have their religion completed, then they are free to do so, having said that, they will not be allowed to do it in public as it is a receipe of riots.. so Shias have to go back to the basics of their religion as well... their Imam never slandered( as per my knwoledge they lost a battle against Ummayads for not doing so) Hazrat Abu Bakr (RZA) and Hazrat Umer (RZA) then why should the follower of the same Imams do so?
Is this wrong that in Iran these two sahabis are slandered regularly in religious congregations?
What happens in Iran, Israel, Japan, Australia, Indonesia, India and others is least of my problems..
Plz give some reference from holy quran or ahadith to prove ur point that women will be allowed to take part in politics in shariyah ruled state.
On contrary, please provide me ref. from Quran and Sahi Hadith that Women is Not Allowed to do so.. I can give you the ref. of Um-ul-Momeenin Hazrat Ayesha (RZA) who not only led a war but was well-known faqiha...
I m again afraid that U are wrong. ALLAH has clearly ordered women not to show their beauty anyone except their mahram. And U are trying to prove that shariyah government will allow women to display their picture on public forums? And MashAllah the picture displayed on this forum are perfect piece of modesty. Nudity or vulgarity is out of question. Still I very much doubt that shariyah ruled state will allow this to happen.
By beauty you mean the face? to me the aya means that they are not allowed to show the bossoms and other body figures/shapes to non-mehrams... now i don't think so there are many decent forums on the net who allow/shows vulgarity in dicussions and in pics... you can have as many doubts but to me having healthy discussion won't hurt anyone, as long they are controlled and well in knowledge of the guardian of both male and female. Islamic Shariah has not only told to women to dress and act in decent way but it also has the same demand from the male and males are equally answerable to bot obeying the law of Allah.
U like to have fun, thats really good.
Isn't it
You asked me about Quaid's views on secular type government and I provided you exactly what you needed. These words defined more than Secularism. These words never meant that he was going to impose Shariah Laws in Pakistan. Why this has created so much pain....? [/quote
me in pain, i think it is you who is deeply in pain from the question!!! please answer it
[quote="niden, post:147, topic:211181"]
It is you who has to answer me. What is the difference between your Shariah Law and Taliban's Shriah Laws who practically implemented in past in their domain? Why Taliban are fighting with the army? Are they on suicidal mission?
there is not limit to ignorance and arrogance... where did i supported taliban-shariah please provide me the ref. i am like many other questions you will try to avoid this in some dumb questions
I have opened a thread regarding JI, JUI, NS and IK, you never visited and said anything. Now tell me why they have not condemned these bombings by Taliban and others? (Some bombings like Peshawar Taliban claimed that they had not done it). Indirectly these Scumbags (JI, JUI, NS and IK) are supporting these bombings and attacks. Isn't it? It appears that you support one of the parties above,
Am I bound to respond to every non-sense thread you start? which ever thread seems to make any sense to me and have some substance to discuss i do take part in it.. but the thread you made was out of utter non-sense and has nothing to do with the ground-realities.. so i decided to not to take part in it... i didn't knew it is going to hurt you so much..
you called me JIYALA (a personal attack), what should I call you?
A Pakistani would be enough..
I think you shouldn't be personal and keep the discussions in proper perspective without involving personally. Will you?
But you won't talk anything which is inline of the discussion and would continuously bring in out of topic stuff, so i had to answer those, calling you a die-hard supporter to PPPP a Jiyala is a bad thing?
Yes, today's muslims have proved that shariyah is not relevent anymore now, thats why muslims prefer to write laws for themselves rather than implementing ALLAHa's laws. Cant U see that?
If today's muslim says that there is not Allah and/or says that Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was not the last prophet and there are Prophets after him... how can they be muslims in the first place?
For idiots seems to be non-sense, not for people who have brains. Look at my posts how people had responded. So again keep your idiotic comments with in your domain.
As regard Jiyala, you reminded me of stupid jamaatees who never accetepted that they were supporters of JI but always talk againts PPP and approved any action of JI. I think you belong to same category but afraid to admit. So basically you are jamaatee.
Again an un-replied question, why in the hell leaders of JI, JUI, PML(N) and PTI(IK) have failed to condemn these bombings?
For idiots seems to be non-sense, not for people who have brains. Look at my posts how people had responded. So again keep your idiotic comments with in your domain.
As regard Jiyala, you reminded me of stupid jamaatees who never accetepted that they were supporters of JI but always talk againts PPP and approved any action of JI. I think you belong to same category but afraid to admit. So basically you are jamaatee.
Again an un-replied question, why in the hell leaders of JI, JUI, PML(N) and PTI(IK) have failed to condemn these bombings?
So talking against PPP makes other guys Jamatees, i never knew that, i thought talking against PPP means conspiracy against democracy... and as for your question can you even remotely link it with the topic??? i know i know, it some kind of conspiracy against PPP to say something like this, but asking question about other political parties from me doesn't make any sense, but again a jiyala can do anything... yes i agree (for ppp supporters aka jiyalas) Bhutto is center of universe and world revolves around him, now can you answer the question i asked concerning the topic in hand or you are still going to chant your bhutoo/PPP mantra?
[mod]Please refrain from making personal remarks and stick to the topic![/mod]
Only if the collective wisdom is based on Religious doctrine...
You seem like a very confused guy!
In your post when I asked you that who is going to determine if the government/Khalifa is acting in accordance with the sharia you are demanding you said "people." Now you are saying that collective wisdom of the peope will be based on religious doctrine. Who is going to check if collective wisdom of the people is actually according to religious doctriine. Will there be a council of molvis checking if collectively people are taking decisions according to the religious doctrine. What if people collectively take a decision which is not according to religious doctrine in the opinion of some people as you are very well aware that there are several interpretations of religious doctrines.
[quote]
There is no specific dress-code in Islam, however, any dress which is decent is acceptable in Islam... aging collective wisdom had to be in accordance with the shariah..
[/quote]
Again the same question. Who will decide if the collective wisdom is in accordance with religious doctrine?
Example some women don't cover their heads in Pakistan and consider this as perfectly decent. Who is going to decide what actually the religious doctrine says as it seems you don't trust the people now and you want it to be according to religious doctrine.
[quote]
No i don't think so the result has been 100%, as i have said above, the collective wisdom shall be in line of religious doctrine of Islam...
[/quote]
Please be kind enough to let us know this religious doctrine will be from which sect? Who has the final authority to really give the verdict that everything is actually according to religious doctrine.
[quote]
Now no molana or Mufti will endorse above suggestions for Khilafah, as it will be the last day for their jobs.. under Islamic System all the mosques and Madrassas shall be under direct Govt. Control, there will be no more moqsues in the every street have Friday sermon or their own. Mosques will turn back to its initial role i.e. community center, where the members of community will gather five times a day to offer prayer and if necessary then discuss the matter faced by their community or any community member..
[/quote]
I appreciate your honesty for admitting that the sharia your are prescribing is your personal sharia and not a single relgious leader in this whole wide world will agree to your idea.
In your previous post you said that every non muslim will be free to practice his religon, but it seems that you are not ready to give this right to muslims. For muslims everything they do on religious front will be controlled by the Khalifa and his government.
[quote]
Mosques shall no longer belong to any particular cult/sect... all mosques shall be for muslims and if anyone have problem to offer prayer in such mosques he is most welcome to stay at home. Mosques and Madrasas based on cult shall be demolished and the founder/financer of the same shall be held under the charges of spreading dis-unity in the Islamic brotherhood.
Most of Molanas, mufties and so-called aalim are aware of above things, now why should they reckon anything like that... It is not that only non-muslim forces are against Khilafah, but our so-called aalims are against it by all their het and power
[/quote]
I am sorry I find all your postings as childish.
First you are admitting your idea of sharia in non existent in this world, you have a serious distrust for aalims, moulanas, and muftis.
Why in the world are you demanding something which is impossible to achieve. Why don't you come out of your intellectual dishonesty and say clearly that you want a secular system with no relgious apartheid. Why do you want to create a secular system and call it sharia system.
From your postings I admire the fact that you are against the use of relgion for political gains. This is the reason that you are so much against the present day clergy. Don't you think that by invoving relgion in to politics we will do a disservice to relgion because politics as all about disagreements.
[quote]
I am working on it... have two fronts at a time, it would take sometime but i am sure i'll be able to convey the message
[/QUOTE]
Instead of preaching and convincing molvis, you should focus on advocating a non relgious political system. Why in the world should we take away personal liberties of people in the name of relgion and advocate a system in which relgion becomes political. Why can't we ask people to become tolerant and keep away relgious beliefs when they indulge in politics for the sake of the honour of religion only. After all appointment of Khalifa and gaining power is politics and not relgion!!!
I have provided you the proof and link under "JI will organise Jihadhis" read and enjoy there.
You seem like a very confused guy!
Actually i am not, it is you who is confusing things, how can a system can be islamic if the collective wisdom is not as per Islamic Doctrine? it is common sense that in an Islamic System, the collective wisdom of people should be inline with the shairah...
In your post when I asked you that who is going to determine if the government/Khalifa is acting in accordance with the sharia you are demanding you said "people." Now you are saying that collective wisdom of the peope will be based on religious doctrine. Who is going to check if collective wisdom of the people is actually according to religious doctriine. Will there be a council of molvis checking if collectively people are taking decisions according to the religious doctrine. What if people collectively take a decision which is not according to religious doctrine in the opinion of some people as you are very well aware that there are several interpretations of religious doctrines.
If collective wisdom decides against and/or not inline of shairah and would like to have it their way, it can be some other system but not Islamic Shariah System...
Again the same question. Who will decide if the collective wisdom is in accordance with religious doctrine?
The collective wisdom has been provided to the man-kind some 1400 years ago, the system can be based on the instruction provided in that manual... now that manual can be adopted by muslims or non-muslims, but the shariah system comes into play when it is adopted completely and not in parts...
Example some women don't cover their heads in Pakistan and consider this as perfectly decent. Who is going to decide what actually the religious doctrine says as it seems you don't trust the people now and you want it to be according to religious doctrine.
One thing you need to understand is, that Islamic system is based on fear of Allah All Mighty and with this the believe comes into the play that He is watching/aware of all our deeds and intentions. An individual comprised of heart, fearful to Allah will not even think about something which is against or not in line of instruction provided by Allah.
Now Allah Subab.o.Talal says have clearly ordered the women and men to lower their gaze and cover themselves in a way that they might not get un-necessary attention of others. Do fearful believer would dare to go against the clear commandments ( for ref. please see Sura-e-Ahzab)
Please be kind enough to let us know this religious doctrine will be from which sect? Who has the final authority to really give the verdict that everything is actually according to religious doctrine. [/quoe]
Islam have not sect and anyone believing in sect is himself dening the basic ruling of Islam that is Unity...
[quote="Mindstorm, post:12, topic:211615"]
I appreciate your honesty for admitting that the sharia your are prescribing is your personal sharia and not a single relgious leader in this whole wide world will agree to your idea.
Infact their are few who would agree with me, Dr. Israar Ahmed are amoung the few, on the second note, this is what now majority of Muslim youth talk about.. no sect, Just Islam as per Quran and Sahi Hadees, i don't know about ur social circle but the more i meet the youth of today, the more i get the feeling that sooner or later, Islamic Shariah would be the only answer...
In your previous post you said that every non muslim will be free to practice his religon, but it seems that you are not ready to give this right to muslims. For muslims everything they do on religious front will be controlled by the Khalifa and his government.
Yes, other religions are controlled by their religious doctrine, same applies to muslims, they need to be diciplined and controlled by their religous doctrine.. their will be a particular ministry which will look after all these affairs and a stronger and Just judiciary will make sure that no body is crossing the line.
I am sorry I find all your postings as childish.
I have no control over your feeling and finding, a child always make a toy of every thing, and i gues this is what you are doing..
First you are admitting your idea of sharia in non existent in this world, you have a serious distrust for aalims, moulanas, and muftis.
yes, show me one country/society in this world which is sharia-based? can you show me model of it ( mulla omer and company does not fall it one), why would i trust a aalim who have only one ambition in his life and that is to prove other cult KAFIR, this kind of mindset have turned 2/3rd of muslim world Kafir or confused. I think you do fall under the category of confused ones ( I am basing this argument on the assumption that you are a muslim and is not qadyani, christain or others)
Why in the world are you demanding something which is impossible to achieve. Why don't you come out of your intellectual dishonesty and say clearly that you want a secular system with no relgious apartheid. Why do you want to create a secular system and call it sharia system.
Who said it is impossible to achieve, it is possible, only thing is one have to determined and dedicated for it and practise it. I would rather advice you the same, that you must learn about the Islamic Shairah first and then talk about secular systems of all times.. I are being dishonset and are trying your best to prove that Muslims are now looking forward to Secular system, naming it as Islamic Shairah....
From your postings I admire the fact that you are against the use of relgion for political gains. This is the reason that you are so much against the present day clergy. Don't you think that by invoving relgion in to politics we will do a disservice to relgion because politics as all about disagreements.
Depend which religion you are talking about, in Christainity for example, the religion has no role what so ever in Politics or govt, where as in Islam the religion do influence the politics as it set the basic standards and moral grounds.. by giving the basic right ( which BTW the western world has came to know in last century only) to every individual, depending on his capabilities...
Instead of preaching and convincing molvis, you should focus on advocating a non relgious political system. Why in the world should we take away personal liberties of people in the name of relgion and advocate a system in which relgion becomes political. Why can't we ask people to become tolerant and keep away relgious beliefs when they indulge in politics for the sake of the honour of religion only. After all appointment of Khalifa and gaining power is politics and not relgion!!!
Again you need to learn Islam more, Islam is not limited to praying of five times a day, 30 days of fasting, giving alms to deserving and performing Haj once in life time, Islam is about each and every action of an individual should be according to The Book of Allah All Mighty and instructions/demonstration of Prophet (SAAW). May it a being a father, a clerk, or a Khalifah, everyone have their set of job description which need to be followed...
Infact their are few who would agree with me, Dr. Israar Ahmed are amoung the few, on the second note, this is what now majority of Muslim youth talk about.. no sect, Just Islam as per Quran and Sahi Hadees, i don't know about ur social circle but the more i meet the youth of today, the more i get the feeling that sooner or later, Islamic Shariah would be the only answer...
Okay...
I have particular respect for Dr. Israar as he is the least hypocrite amongst the religious scholars.
But really what you have been posting and what Dr. Israar preaches is totally different to your idea of sharia. For example Dr. Israar is totally against religious freedom and advocates death for apostasy. While you are far too liberal to endorse his views. Dr. Israar wants death penaly for Qadiyanis to be implemented in Pakistan, while I don't think you are such a radical that you would like to kill all the Qadiyanis.
[quote]
Yes, other religions are controlled by their religious doctrine, same applies to muslims, they need to be diciplined and controlled by their religous doctrine.. their will be a particular ministry which will look after all these affairs and a stronger and Just judiciary will make sure that no body is crossing the line.
[/quote]
Again your reasoning is nothing but a circular reasoning. Now you want to have a ministry of religious affairs over looking the people's collective wisdom. Please inform us who is going to choose the all powerful Minister of relgious affairs.
[quote]
yes, show me one country/society in this world which is sharia-based? can you show me model of it ( mulla omer and company does not fall it one), why would i trust a aalim who have only one ambition in his life and that is to prove other cult KAFIR, this kind of mindset have turned 2/3rd of muslim world Kafir or confused. I think you do fall under the category of confused ones ( I am basing this argument on the assumption that you are a muslim and is not qadyani, christain or others)
[/quote]
The reality is that every other muslim who has ideas other mine is a kafir. This is general mindset in the uslim world.
I told you in the beginning that your idea of democratic sharia has no example in the history and must be invented. Infact you have also shunned some of the ideas from quranic sharia which you don't like. For example you are against jazya tax although it is prescribed by Quran. I think you will not reintroduce slavery in your democratic sharia inspite of quran endorsing clearly the captives of war being enslaved and instructing people to treat them justly.
[quote]
Who said it is impossible to achieve, it is possible, only thing is one have to determined and dedicated for it and practise it. I would rather advice you the same, that you must learn about the Islamic Shairah first and then talk about secular systems of all times.. I are being dishonset and are trying your best to prove that Muslims are now looking forward to Secular system, naming it as Islamic Shairah....
[/quote]
I am a student and do not claim to know everything. Neither I am so fixed in my mentality that I am unwilling to change specially like some extra so called relgious people. I know we are trying to suggest a system for our country where we presume that even non-muslim Pakistanis are patriotic and are not against Islam and people's right to practice Islam. This is the basic difference between us and early islamic society of Holy Prophet PBUH, therefore those laws were time specific and do not apply to our society.
[quote]
Again you need to learn Islam more, Islam is not limited to praying of five times a day, 30 days of fasting, giving alms to deserving and performing Haj once in life time, Islam is about each and every action of an individual should be according to The Book of Allah All Mighty and instructions/demonstration of Prophet (SAAW). May it a being a father, a clerk, or a Khalifah, everyone have their set of job description which need to be followed...
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Read your last sectence again. It is the best sentence I have read from your posting so far. I don't think that Allah has given us this job that we should impose his religion on others in the name of sharia. I don't think Allah wants his religion to be hijacked by anyone for political gains or to come in power.
Fasting, praying etc. are means of self cleansing, and more and more people will clean their souls, the better society we will be able to achieve. We can not slap our own personal virtue/piousness on people in the name of sharia.
mate I am not denying Shariah Law....every Islamic country should have Shariyah Law...but which one?..sunni, shia, deobandi, waabi???? which interpretation will you take...there is no unity amongst Muslim Ummah...if they had unity then they would not have let Israel take over Palestine and kill our innocent Muslim brothers and sisters.
Hindustani Deobandi! They are the world's leading alims.
Hindustani Deobandi! They are the world's leading alims.
hahaha...I dont think Wahaabi would like this approach...they consider them Kafirs...
hanibal bhai,
I would love to see your further comments to my post which you have ignored for last few days to further clarify my understanding of your stance, specially regarding your liberal sharia vs that of Dr. Israar whom you admire. How would your liberal sharia coexist with Dr. Israar who wants to give death penalty to all the Qadiani non muslims living in Pakistan. How will we live in this modern world community after killing all the Qadianis as per the suggestion of Dr. Israar. Who will accept us as a civilzed nation?
Now I apperciate the honesty of Dr. Israar who is strictly following the sharia doctrines. You also previously accused Mullah Omar of selectively implementing Sharia. Now the problem is that if we take everything from sharia on it’s face value we will not be acceptable in world community. What is the solution to these problems. Similarly your comments on Jazya tax, slavery laws etc will also be appreciated.
I appreciate your open admission that your liberal sharia has to be invented as it does not have any precedent in the history. I would like to know how will you solve these problems as me and you have agreed on about 90% of the things you have mentioned in your newly invented liberal sharia. Now you must explain how will you solve the above mentioned problems to really implement sharia as the law of the country in modern times!!!