Islamic Financing

Salams,

There have been some discussion about Islamic Financing on this forum in the past but after a brief search I thought I should open a new thread on Islamic Financing. I invite everyone to share information about Islamic Banking and Financing options available to Muslims in North America. Let’s say someone wants to buy a house, a car, or wants to start a business and need capital. Where should s/he inquire for Islamic Financing.

I am going to list a couple I know

Unfortunately the answer is not very simple. In North America, the two main options are Lariba and Guidance Solution. Apparantly, the Guidance model is closer to the true spirit of Islamic financing. The drawback is that no matter which of the two options you choose, you do end up paying more than the traditional, interest bank loan. This is my personal research, and I am definitely open to other opinions.

FYI

May 08, 2004

Sixth Harvard University Forum on Islamic Finance

The Sixth Harvard University Forum on Islamic Finance, will be held on May 8 and 9, 2004 at the Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The Sixth Forum, themed “Islamic Finance: Current Legal and Regulatory Issues,” will feature more than forty speakers participating in eight sessions over two full days. The Forum will be attended by U.S. Treasury Under Secretary John Taylor, leading scholars, and senior international bankers, including Ahmad Mohamed Ali, President of the Islamic Development Bank.

More Information at http://www.ifp.harvard.edu/

guys i really dont think there is any such thing as islamic financing...its just a way to fool yourself. change the names and play the game.
what the hell!
its so darn confusing and everyone and every maulvi says a diff thing that i really dont want to go into the crap anymore.
i mean whats Islamic about charging the same interest to a poor borrower (the bank playing shylock) and for the amount a poor investor invests or deposits; give no or VERY little ineterst! doesnt it kill the whole Islamic concept of interest and suppression etc....?

why not stick with the normal financing where the bank uses ur money and doesnt fool you and pays you interest for using your money. i dont htink that kind of interest is haram. the kind of interest that is haram is the kind Shylock wanted from Antonion in 'Merchant of Venice' and thats whats forbidden in Islam to suppress or torture a poor 'majboor' person top pay interest etc.

these are the simple things that have kept the muftis from issuiong outright clear cut fatwas since forever! they keep confusing ppl.

^^agree on a broad-brush level. I believe the real reason islamic financing has failed to develop as a competing model vis-a-vis the modern banking system, is the fact that we have extreme personalities for the religion and the finance-specialists. On one hand we have maulvi sahibs who will straight away 'kanon ko haath lagaing' upon hearing the term 'riba' and the finance-specialists on the other hand fail to understand the essence why is riba declared haraam (ribaa is being used as an example, it can be applied across the board for islamic financing options). Unless we get a moderate and hybrid of the two disciplines (religion and the financial/business knowhow) i would be amazed if we can get far with implementing lslamic financing as a 'practical' substitute for the conventional banking.

Saqib: I believe this perhaps partly answers your question. I will leave the North America part for my learned friends. As a tip off, if HSBC operates there, you might be lucky. They operate dedicated islamic financin windows at their branches and are perhaps at the forefront of developing/implementing islamic financing concepts at a practical level.

Hope it helps.

Here in Northern California, there is an organization (of muslim investors) who provide ‘halal’ financing for purchasing homes. Their website is

It is limited in scope (total 17 houses financed so far), has high dp requirements. The website is not entirely clear how they compute the payments or keep it interest-free.

Here are a few I know about:

In Pakistan Housing building finance corporation http://www.hbfc.com.pk

In manchester Ansar Finance http://www.ansarfinance.com

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
The website is not entirely clear how they compute the payments or keep it interest-free.
[/QUOTE]

ahh and that is the kicker.. if they are like the other "halal" financing places, ask them sometime and you would note that its essentially just moving some words around and stating numbers differently.

u dont buy a $500K house and pay enough interest at a certain rate over 30 years that your total payment is $900K with $400K of interest and $500K of principal.

This is how they present it, you are buying a house for $900K with payments spread over 30 years, their profit is $400K.

:)

^ I know. I have argued essentially the exact same thing on GS a few times previously as well. I am not giving a authoritiative statement here, but in my view, all the so-called "halaal" financing I have studied are just a pack of word-smithing where actual interest is computed at the back end and shown as 'profit' on the front-end.

That way, "pakkay" muslims who are getting the loan and the investors both are happy.

yeah, and then there is a "musalmani" surcharge on these "halal" financing schemes...I have not seen one which does not charge a premium for this "halalification" of mortgage.

pretty good returns for basically doing a "replace all" on microsoft word :D

In my opinion it all boils down to acceptance of definitions and being creative. Much of the current work in Islamic Finance involves ways around the problem of interest. Let's face it, interest is something that cannot be escaped especially if you are the product provider. To stay in business you have to make the halal options competitive by price because charging the buyer a premium for the halal option is definately a no no in my books and if the halal option were cheaper by price then the providers would not be able to compete in the market.

The main UK providers at the moment such as HSBC Amanah Finance, Ahli United and United National Bank have financially set up the property purchase products using Mudarabah and Ijarah forms of financing. This involves a great deal of work from the shariah scholars to go through all contractual documents, marketing literature and set up of the product to ensure that there is nothing there that renders the product non-shariah compliant. And yes, you may end up paying as much as any other conventional mortgage scheme. The main problem is making it affordable for the Muslim Community in the UK and embedding the purchase plans into the state housing schemes for Muslims.

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a woman. :Pretty:

The concept of Islamic finance is a sham. Riba is an anachronistic concept meant for the severe practices of usury in the olden times. There are better methods of stopping that now than disavowing the use of a financial instrument, like rackateering laws.

I think a better example would be buying halal meat from Tescos or Sainsburys in a non-Muslim area or country. At the end of the day I am confident that the products that have the seal of approval of the scholars are halal (and where there is doubt they have made it clear) and this is enough for me to choose the halal option rather than go for the outright haram option.

Its not enough to say that it is a sham, lets have an educated debate on it. Lets see what you know.

This is all greek to me but it seemed relevant:

Tapping the Islamic bond market

By Farhan Mahmood

According to recent news reports, Dr. Ishrat Hussain, governor of the State Bank of Pakistan stated that Pakistan plans to sell Islamic bonds overseas in the new fiscal year starting in July to help attract Islamic investors and further develop its debt market.

Tapping into the market for Islamic products is a prudent and sound tactical move of the government of Pakistan. After six years of seclusion, Pakistan is slowly getting back on the radar screen of foreign investors. There are several reasons for this: Pakistan’s role as a frontline state in the war against terrorism and the decision by the US government in March to grant Pakistan the status of a major non-NATO ally (which provided a stark illustration of the degree of strategic importance the US now attaches to its relationship with Pakistan), improving relations with India, sound implementation of macroeconomic policies and a strong improvement in the country’s external account.

The Economist Intelligence Unit expects real gross domestic product (GDP) (at factor cost) to expand by 5.30 per cent in fiscal year 2003-04 (July-June) and by 5.00 per cent in FY2004-05.

The IMF, however, remains concerned about the pace of reform of the power sector and of public-sector corporations, and about what it sees as excessive social spending. The primary goal of tapping the international capital market is to reduce reliance on the IMF and provide the administration enough fiscal room to implement discretionary development spending. Other driving forces behind the government’s intent to issue Islamic bonds are to replace higher-cost, short-term borrowing (mainly supplier credit) with longer-term debt and raise the country’s profile among Islamic investors.

Capitalising on recent success

In February this year, Pakistan raised US$500 million in its first overseas bond sale since nuclear tests led to international sanctions in 1998. The effort marked a welcome return of the country to international capital markets and last month Pakistan converted these fixed-interest bonds to floating-rate bonds to reduce costs.

Work is in progress to sort out modalities for selling Pakistan Islamic Bonds to investors conscious about shariah-compliant investments. The demand for Islamic bonds has traditionally come from the Middle East with healthy distribution into Asia and Europe. In recent months, sovereign states including Bahrain, Malaysia and Qatar have successfully utilised Islamic finance and accessed the international Islamic capital market.

A shariah-compliant investment

The basic aspect of Islamic finance is the absence of interest. In addition, there are social and ethical features such as aiding a more equitable distribution of income and wealth and avoiding undesirable areas. Islamic bonds comply with the shariah, which prohibits the payment of interest and investors share in any profit or loss.

Issuance of sukuk or Islamic bond has been one of the most useful mechanisms for raising funds in the international capital markets through structures acceptable under the shariah. Last year, Malaysia issued a US$600 million Islamic bond and reports suggest that the growing pipeline of new sovereign sukuks is likely to include Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Sukuk is a shariah-compliant capital market product that represents an undivided proportionate ownership interest in an asset with the corresponding right to the Islamically acceptable income streams generated by the asset. These current income streams are established and translated into tradable securities, which can be issued in the capital markets for investors’ participation.

Sukuk allows investors to lock in either medium to long-term fixed income returns or variable rates of return, which are adjusted at periodic intervals and which, by virtue of being tradable, provide investors with the flexibility to exit the investment at any time prior to completion of the investment-holding period.

Sukuk can be equated to a conventional bond except that it is always asset backed. Sovereign bodies, state corporations, multinationals and financial institutions have used sukuk issuance as an alternative to syndicated financing. It also serves as a vehicle for securitisation.

Credit quality of sukuk instruments is assessed and rated by international rating agencies, which investors use as a guideline to assess risk/return parameters of a sukuk issue. While the provisions of Islamic debt instruments may add levels of complexity to the analysis, longstanding methodologies and rating scales are sufficiently broad so far to incorporate the varied features of Islamic debt financing.

Wooing Islamic investors

An Islamic capital market is rapidly evolving and growing. Over the last 30 years, Islamic financial services have gained increased importance and greater recognition among investors. A wider product and service base is increasingly evident with 108 Islamic funds in operation globally (according to estimates, Islamic funds, which avoid investments in alcohol, gaming and tobacco companies, are worth about $3.30 billion worldwide), several global Islamic indices, innovations in Islamic product origination, retail banking and other capital market services. There is also now a greater diversity of market-players, often involving the major financial players of the developed world.

To have a wider asset base, Malaysia has been successful in making concerted efforts to develop its Islamic bond market for the last 14 years. In general, there are three broad categories of Islamic private debt securities, which can cater to various financing objectives and cash-flow needs of issuers. These are long-term Islamic debt securities of more than five years, medium term notes of two to five years and short-term commercial papers of one to twelve months. The two rating agencies in Malaysia provide long-term and short-term ratings on the likelihood of timely repayment of financial commitments of Islamic debt instruments.

Graduating from the IMF programme

Pakistan’s government is doing the correct thing by planning to issue a bond that is shariah-compliant and that has appeal to Islamic investors. An Islamic bond positions Pakistan to benefit from the growing market for shariah-compliant investments, with assets of over US$250 billion. The government has rightly focused its energies towards ensuring that Pakistan regains its ability to raise capital from international capital markets and pay off its short-term liabilities. As stated by the finance minister, Pakistan will be pre-paying another US$1.0 billion high-cost debt before the end of the current calendar year.

The IMF has been informed that once the current on going PRGF (Poverty Reduction and Growth Facility) ends in October this year, Pakistan will not be resorting to any further borrowing from the Fund. With the country returning to the radar screens of investors, the strategy to diversify Pakistan’s funding sources from primarily IFIs (International Financial Institutions) to the international capital market is a sound one. The stage is set to prepare Pakistan to graduate smoothly from the IMF programme.

— The author is a Portfolio Manager with a bank in Toronto
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I think the simple fact is that there is no such thing in Islam as financing. It is basically you live with what you can afford. Yes borrowing money is fine but interest is not and there aint no way in hell someone will open a business up to give you interest free money so there has to be a catch somewhere. I think the only islamic way of doing something would be save money over the years and buy the thing when you have enough money. For instance save money for 30 years and by the time you are ready to retire you buy a house. So I personally think according to religion and the simple way of life style it all boils down to buy what you can afford. All these Islamic financing companies can not operate if they dont make some money out it somehow.

^ The above hypothesis completely ignores the time value of money and inflation.

Lets say a house price is $2,000 and you plan to buy it in 20 years, so you figure you should save $100 per year. You save 100 dollars the first year and put it in your pillow for buying a house in the future. Inflation is 6%, next year your $100 is only worth about $94, and so it will keep going down. If inflation stays constant, your first $100 are worth about $4 by the time year 12 rolls in. Surprise surprise, the house is now worth $3,000. Go back to the drawing board. :-)

If we were dealing with gold coins and zero inflation, the save-and-buy model for big ticket items will definitely work.

So you think there is an Islamic way of financing?? I mean in just simplest forms you think there is a company out there that would give you 300 K interest free for 30 years??? If not what do they charge for doing that. They might not call it interest but whatever they call it you know it is interest. Unless they call the 300 K house a 500 K house and loan you that and you can keep paying 200 K over the market price just so you can avoid interest.

^ My post was solely answering your point that someone should save and then buy, if they want to have nothing to do with interest. Yes, they can do that, ofcourse, although the time-value of money needs to be understood clearly.

If you had lived in pre-paper-currency and pre-inflation times, you will loan someone 100 gold coins, and you will get back from him exactly 100 gold coins. You are not allowed to charge interest (excessive or otherwise) on the money you lend, because that is called riba'a. This is a pure Islamic lending model. There is no noticable inflation, unless ofcourse there are more gold coins entering into circulation due to a new gold mine discovered, or something. However, if he is doing business with your money, you may want a percentage of the profit from the business out of the money he borrowed from you. Thats sharing in profits/losses and is perfectly permissible in Islam.

In present times, we use paper-currency, so a natural result is inflation. The value of money keeps changing. Therefore, any mode of financing has to take into account the time-value of money. This may not be identical to the rate of interest but is closely related. So any mode of Islamic financing, in the back-end do need to calculate impact of inflation/interest. There is no noticable change as far as numbers are concerned. They are just doing the same calculation that a normal bank is going to do and are just packaging it as "profit" instead of "interest".

Anyone who is arguing that present day banking interest is the same as riba'a, needs to come up with a good explanation on how they are going to factor-in or ignore the time value of paper-currency.

^ shabaash bhateejay, good approach to explaining this

Yeah bhanjay!! :k: Also, that takes care of the time value aspect in terms of inflation but what about opportunity costs for the lender.