Islam

skv_anand · May 17, 2001, 4:41pm

Is Islam a religion?

Buddha was an atheist. Christ never declared divinity. He was not author of Bible. Older religions; Hindu and Judaism find their gods in mythology.
Sikhism, the most new religion, refused to stamp a destructive Bhinderwalan thought. Why? Sikhi foundations are for fraternity and brotherhood for all humanity and not only for Sikhs.

With the progress of science and civilization most of the faiths, religions are confided to Church and Temples.

Islam differs.
The prophet declared divinity, offered a book to his followers on behalf of Ishaallah. He removed all his rivals physically, captured their wealth and ladies, distributed to his followers as a divine gift. Ideology was a success on a barren land, as it had a stamp of the prophet on behalf of almighty.
Enemy is a kafir.
Bring a Kakir, a non-believer to the path of Allah…how it has been interpreted?

Islam preaches equality and peace and in a shadow it looks like the most revolutionary and socialist thought.
At the same time the ideology of Kafir closes all rational thinking. Killing a Kafir and share of his wealth is a divine task.
And if you get killed in the process of killing a Kafir, a heaven is waiting for you.

Muslims kill people of other faiths, kill innocents. Why Muslims kill Muslims?

What scholar can explain me the tyranny figures of Ayatollah Khomeiny, Saddam or Gaddafi. They have been engaged in mass killing of Muslims, killing of citizens of their own countries?

Why Islam is bonded to definitions?
What scholar can explain me the flexibility of Jihad?
Why Islam is a media for political gains?

system · May 17, 2001, 5:48pm

if you were any smarter...you would be in an indian sh!t-hole planing the next massacre of innocent muslims in Kashmir.

Ruggoon main bhi ruwaani hai
Bari pagal deewaani hai
Jawaani tuo Jawaani hai...

mAd_ScIeNtIsT · May 17, 2001, 6:35pm

[quote]
Originally posted by skv anand:
Islam differs.
The prophet declared divinity,
[/quote]

False. The Prophet Mohammeed (SAWS) never claimed to be divine, and always made it clear that he was only a man. He also made it expressly clear that it would be a great sin to worship him.

[quote]
offered a book to his followers on behalf of Ishaallah.
[/quote]

The Qur'an was revealed to him by God, is the Muslim belief.

[quote]
He removed all his rivals physically, captured their wealth and ladies, distributed to his followers as a divine gift. Ideology was a success on a barren land, as it had a stamp of the prophet on behalf of almighty.
[/quote]

Care to explain either part of this in a clear and non-rambling way, illustrated with examples?

[quote]
Enemy is a kafir.
Bring a Kakir, a non-believer to the path of Allah…how it has been interpreted?
[/quote]

Kafir does not mean enemy. A kafir is one who rejects Islam after hearing of it. This act alone does not make one an enemy. Indeed, in the Quran Muslims are ordered to treat non-muslims fairly and justly, as long as they take no hostile action against Muslims and Islam.

Also yes it is, as I understand, obligatory on the Muslim people to spread Islam, and to educate Kaffirs about Islam. However, this does not permit forceful conversion as you seem to imply. Islam requires conversions to be entirely of one's free will. The Qur'an clearly states that there should be no compulsion in religion.

[quote]
*Islam preaches equality and peace and in a shadow it looks like the most revolutionary and socialist thought.
[/quote]
*

Islam does preach equality and peace. It is revolutionary because much of what it has to offer is completely different from the status quo. Islam is not socialist, it rejects many of socialism's principle; but neither is it a capatalist system. Islam is a third way, unique.

[quote]
**At the same time the ideology of Kafir closes all rational thinking. Killing a Kafir and share of his wealth is a divine task.
And if you get killed in the process of killing a Kafir, a heaven is waiting for you.

Muslims kill people of other faiths, kill innocents.

[/quote]
**

More lies promoted by those who wish to stir hatred against Islam. Killing an innocent person, whether Muslim or Kafir, is MURDER under Islamic Law.

[quote]
**Why Muslims kill Muslims?

What scholar can explain me the tyranny figures of Ayatollah Khomeiny, Saddam or Gaddafi. They have been engaged in mass killing of Muslims, killing of citizens of their own countries?
[/quote]
**

I do not wish to account for Khomeini's actions, lest I offend any of the Shia brothers and sisters on this forum. To the best of my knowledge, those who were killed by his government were those who called themselves Muslims but who opposed implentation of Islam.

As for Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, before you say that they are proof of Muslims killing Muslims bear in mind that both Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi are being opposed by Mujahideen in the same way as the Indian Government is being opposed by Mujahideen in Kashmir. Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi are actively trying to surpress the Islamist movements in their countries - they are enemies of Islam and brave Muslims are on Jihad against them even as I type!

[quote]
*Why Islam is bonded to definitions?
[/quote]
*

To prevent corruption of the faith. Look at what has happened to Christianity.... failure to stick to their definitions of what is right or wrong has led to near total moral breakdown in their countries.

[quote]
*What scholar can explain me the flexibility of Jihad?
[/quote]
*

Jihad is struggle for Islam. Jihad is trying to be a better Muslim, jihad is spreading Islam by preaching, jihad is spreading Islam by example, and jihad is defending Islam by taking up arms.

[quote]
*Why Islam is a media for political gains?
[/quote]
*

Islam is way of life.... many politcians have realised that and are attempting to implement it. This is out of no lust for power.... it arises out of coming closer to the Truth!!!!

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited May 17, 2001).]

Rational · May 17, 2001, 7:19pm

All this (mis)information about Islam is coming from a worshipper of:
Monkey
Snake
Elephant
Cow

I think Anand you are better off keeping your lids shut when it comes to ridiculing any religion.
Now muslims killing non-muslims is funny indeed.

70,000 muslims killed in Kashmir by Hindus
200,000 muslims killed in Iraq by Christians
1,000,000 muslims feared to die in Afghanistan due to sanctions by Christians

Can you explain the religious significance of Cow's urine in your religion????

Nancy · May 18, 2001, 4:53pm

Dear friend Mr. Rational,

All this (mis)information about Islam is coming from a worshipper of:
Monkey
Snake
Elephant
Cow

What is your problem if somebody worships monkies, cows , elephants etc ? I dont know the significance of this but I guess people in ancient India thought killing of other animals is bad. If you tell somebody dont kill they are not going to stop , so they said those are different forms of same god. I guess they are symbolic way of telling that there is divinity in every living creature .

Some religions do not permit eating anything which grows below soil (such as groundnut) because they dont want to kill any insects during the process of plucking those vegetables.

Certain trees are sacred in Hinduism (such as Banyan tree). Cutting of these trees are not allowed). This also makes sense. There are certain unfair systems such as untouchability which are totally unlawful and punishable in India. Same goes with customs such as Sati & child marriage.

70,000 muslims killed in Kashmir by Hindus
200,000 muslims killed in Iraq by Christians
1,000,000 muslims feared to die in Afghanistan due to sanctions by Christians

First of all - I am very very sad about the killings in Kashmir.

Coming to your point - Please note that India is not a Hindu country. There are more number of muslims in India than in Pakistan and more number of christians than some of prominent christian countries. The number 70,000 or so people killed in Kashmir includes people of all religions (muslim , hindu, sikh, buddhist, christian etc etc. ) .There are many muslim police officers / soldiers involved in counter-insurgency operations. Federal minister in charge of Indian Army was a Christian (till recently) and federal home minister - in charge of paramilitary forces during the intial days of Kashmir insugency was a muslim. J&K chief minister is a muslim too ..

Similarly you cannot classify the later two as Christians killing muslims.

Can you explain the religious significance of Cow's urine in your religion????

Cowdung is used a disinfectant. Most of the farmers in my region used to apply paste of mud + cowdung + water on walls on granneries (where you store rice etc). It effectively controls insects.

Drops of Cow's Urine along with milk, honey, ghee etc is used as purifier. I remember when my grandfather died after all the rituals were over (cremating dead body , mourning etc) - we were given 'Panchagavya' which contains above components to purify ourselves . I read somewhere that it has some antibodies which are required by the body. We dont want to know what are all the ingredients of medicines what we drink or eat right ? It is proven effective so I have no problem. I dont think anybody drinks cow's urine like they drink coke or pepsi.

Lastly -

Unfortunately many people in western world stereotype people from other cultures. People question some of your beliefs . You have three options. (i) Pick a gun and shoot them or threaten them that they will burn in hell (ii) ignore them (iii) explain them in whatever little way you can . I choose the 3rd option. because there are two possibilities (i) atleast that person will shut his mouth (ii) He may take interest in my way of living and follow it.

sholay · May 18, 2001, 6:38pm

I'LL MAKE THIS SHORT AND SWEET.

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION, IT IS A WAY OF LIFE!
MEANING 'SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD' - ALLAH IN OUR CASE, OUR LORD ALMIGHTY.

BEFORE ANY HUMAN FROM WHATEVER BELIEF SYSTEM TRIES TO BELITTLE THE ISLAMIC WAY OF LIFE, THEY NEED TO TAKE HEED OF THE FOLLOWING:

THEY HOLY QUR'AAN IS THE ONLY SCRIPTURE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, THAT IS IN IT'S ORIGINAL FORM. PROVEN FACT!

THE QUR'AAN LAYS A CHALLENGE TO ALL OF MANKIND AND THE SPIRIT WORLD TO GET TOGETHER AND MAKE JUST ONE VERSE LIKE THAT OF THE QUR'AAN. 1400 YEARS HAVE PASSED AND THIS CHALLENGE HAS NOT AS YET BEEN MET AND NEVER WILL. PROVEN FACT!

TEH QUR'AAN IS PERSONALLY PROTECTED BY GOD - ALLAH FOR US.

THIS IS OUR SOURCE OF GUIDANCE, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A GENIUS TO WORK OUT WHY MUSLIMS ARE:

THE MOST HYGENIC ALL ALL PEOPLE, WE WASH AT LEAST 5 TIMES A DAY.

WE ARE THE BIGGEST TEETOTALLERS, AS WE DON'T DRINK AND SMOKE.

OUR CRIME RATES ARE THE LOWEST IN ALL THE WORLD. PROVEN FACT.

OUR WOMEN CARRY MORE RIGHTS THAN ANY OTHER WOMEN FROM OTHER FAITHS. CHECK THE FACTS!

WE ARE THE MOST ANT-RACISTS, WE STATND NEXT TO ALL DIFFERENT RACES SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, 5 TIMES A DAY.

WE ARE THE MOST GENEROUS, WE GIVE ONE FIFTH OF ALL OUR WEALTH TO THE POOR EVERY YEAR.

AND WE ARE THE MOST HOSPITABLE OF ALL PEOPLE.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE AND MEDIA PROPOGANDA, LABELLING US AS FANATICS, TERRORISTS ETC.

USE YOUR OWN BRAIN AND SEARCH FOR KNOWLEDGE AND FACTUAL INFORMATION, AS HUMANS ARE THE BEST OF ALL CREATION. REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU COME FROM WE CANNOT BE PROVEN WRONG.

THE QUESTION IS: WHO KNOWS BETTER, THE CREATOR OR THE CREATED.
VERY SIMPLE ANSWER.

I REST MY CASE!!!!!!!!!

Azad_Munna · May 25, 2001, 9:11pm

Guys this is a flame.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/mad2.gif

Im sorry you all got taken in again by the provocateuer SKv Anand.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

He is no where to acknowledge your painstaking information .

He never intended to .

Next time IGNORE such basic general

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/eek.gif

knowledge question.

Hindus christian or aethist

MAY I add that this precautionary meaasure should be towards flames within the muslim sub sects too.If someone doesnot have pre existing knowlege there is NO obligation on anybodies part to SPOON feed anyone!!

Nancy :

I beg to differ ,just because you gave reason why you worship doesnt make it a RAIONAL discision,BUT I M NOT REFRAINING ANYBODY FROM BELIEVING IN ANY THING OR WORSHIPPING ANY OBJECT JUST IT DOES NOT
HAVE TO BE IN THE REALM OF RATIIONALITY .

By rationality i mean then why not worship all animals which hindus dont nor all trees why only banyan??.It seems just irrational at random action

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/pagal.gif

barque(bijli) yoon akadti hai apne karname pe ke
jaise phir naya hum aashiyaan bana nahi sakte

[This message has been edited by Azad Munna (edited May 25, 2001).]

Azad_Munna · May 25, 2001, 9:27pm

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nancy:
**Dear friend Mr. Rational,