Islam, Muslims And Closure Of Threads

I see individuals here seeking closure of threads, why?

If anyone does not want to participate in any thread, fine, one should just ignore it.

Threads that generate no interest cannot continue and those that continue show clearly that they are generating interest, so why seek their closure or even close them just because an individual so demands?

The forum that is not open enough is not worth participation in and Islam cannot be defended just because muslims do not allow freedom to nonmuslims to be critical of islam on their forums or media.

It is time such muslims realised this fact for themselves and stopped making silly demands of the forum moderators. In fact it is binding upon the rest of participants to put such people in their place. If they do not then these like people will keep on pulling this kind of lever to get what they want at the expense of what the rest of us need or want.

This is the main reason muslim condemnation of terrorists from amongst themselves is looked upon as mere lip service. Let the community show courage and common sense in the face of such opposition. Unless moderates from among muslims show backbone, mosques will remain under suspecion as terrorist training camps. If cyber space is hijacked by such muslims then what guaranty is there that modrsate muslims are not hostage to their own making?

It is very stupid of anyone if one does not realise that giving in to such sort of people is a very bad sign.

If we must discuss religion let us discuss it thoroughly, honestly and in a friendly way to know the truth about it. Close this thread or delete that post is not the way to lay fears and concerns of each other.

There are thousands of websites both for and against religion, just because muslims do not participate in the debate makes no much difference other than the fact that they are storing the problems for later and perhaps at a much bigger scale.

We cannot improve human right in pakistan unless we tackles such issues as are purely and utterly due to islam. Let the critics of islam bring forth the issues they have with islam and muslims and let the defenders of islam defend it openly and honestly. Only and only this way we may be able to reach a compromising position. It is better reaching the compromise through talking with each other regardless how harsh it may be than creating the situation for fighting by cutting out all other view points from within our community.

Even if only one person in pakistan is a nonmuslims, that very person has the right to demand to be accepted as an equal citizen along with all the rest. This very person has the right to be head of the state or the head of the government. If muslims discriminate against nonmuslims on religious grounds anywhere where they have the control over state then what right have they to complain against anyone else elsewhere when discriminated against?

One cannot be in one’s right mind if one justifies discrimination in the name of religion oneself yet demands not to be treated the very same way by others. Compromise is about give and take and that means muslims accepting nonmuslims’ demands and vice versa.

did u read what u typed????
or u just went on writing....

how can u have one non-muslim person, the only non-muslim citizen, ruling over millions of muslims????
what logic can u put in that????
what democracy wud put him there????
how do u expect him to fully understand the ways muslims want their society to be shaped or how they want their economics to be planned????

Dear armughal,

thank you for your response.

I would like you to think about what democracy is and then think about what I am saying, hopefully then it all will become clear.

Democracy cannot afford to discriminate on the basis of religion for example. As an equal citizen of the state a person has the right to put oneself forward as a candidate and if voters are sensible and the person has the necessary merits, there is no reason why such a person should not be elected to lead the nation of which one is a member.

If it is important for a leader to be of the religion of people whom one tends to lead then what qualifies muslims to lead nonmuslims in their states? How can muslim qualify to decide matters relating to nonmuslims? Remember, all religious people believe that their relgions are their ways of life. This is why compromise on religions is absolutely necessary. The best way is to leave religions out of politics and choose rulers on the basis of who is best for the country in worldly matters eg education, jobs, industry, trade and commerce etc etc etc.

People are dying out of poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunities for jobs, lack of healthcare, lack of welfare etc etc. These are the problems of this world that we must take steps to deal with. Are religions and religious capable of dealing with such problems? Of course not, that is the reason that secularism has been adopted, for relgious had no time to think about worldly matters, because they are far too busy to sort out their religious matters.

If you have witnessed debates or rather fights between brailvies and deobandies, sunnis and shias, sunnis and wahabies, ahmadies and main groups etc etc, you would know what I mean. I have been personally involved in these things for a period of time. If we want to see pakistan progress and prosper, we must move it away from religious politics.

India is hindu majority state and we saw therein muslims as heads of state. We too therefore must think what is in the best interest of our country. For more please seeRELIGION AND SECULARISM The articles on the site.

Regards and all the best.

MMughal

Thank you for your wise words,,I couldn't have said it better myself. You seem like a stable and well educated person.

Thanks again..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MMughal: *

India is hindu majority state and we saw therein muslims as heads of state.

[/QUOTE]

ofcourse we know how true a muslim he is....
dont make me debate on that....

and who cares what india does, we r not living for democracy we live for religion....
and if anyone has a problem, let him go to india and become the president there....

u may take the opportunity of the 'dosti' environment and move to india to practice ur secularism....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Diva4U: *
MMughal

Thank you for your wise words,,I couldn't have said it better myself. You seem like a stable and well educated person.

Thanks again..
[/QUOTE]

Dear Diva4U,

Thank you very much for your very kind words I am grateful. I must return the compliment though that to realise one is talking sense needs sense in itself.

Regards and all the best.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

ofcourse we know how true a muslim he is....
dont make me debate on that....

and who cares what india does, we r not living for democracy we live for religion....
and if anyone has a problem, let him go to india and become the president there....

u may take the opportunity of the 'dosti' environment and move to india to practice ur secularism....
[/QUOTE]

Dear armughal,

Thank you for your reply.

Pakistan is not an islamic emarate nor an absolute monarchy. It has never been an islamic religious state per se nor was it created as such. It was therefore always open to various systems of governing including secularism. In fact the very first person who was governor general of pakistan ie Muhammad Ali Jinah himself believed in secular democracy. He wanted to set up parliamentary system like the British.

As per your suggestion for me to move to India. I do not think that was at all necessary. We are not talking about problems of Indians and India but pakistan and pakistanis. Let indians worry about their country let us worry about pakistan and its problems and solutions. We cannot tell hindus of pakistan go to india or parsees to go to iran=persia and for that matter pakistani jews to move to israel or the christian to move to rome or elsewhere . This is the current reality of our world ie all countries in the world have people of all colours, nations, tribes, religions and beliefs etc etc. It is therefore time for us to move with the world and accept this reality and look for new solutions to our new problems.

None of us is right in telling off others on basis of tribalism, religionism or nationalism etc etc. It is time to include people than to exclude them on willy nilly grounds. Your views are therefore at odds with huge majority of people in the world which is the current reality on the ground. It is time to realise that we are all individual and being individuals no two people hold exactly the same views on things therefore we have no right to speak on behalf of others unless they authorise us to do so.

In your case, as a religious person you can only speak for yourself because there are many sects within muslims, each with their own beleifs. It shows that we must accept each other on the basis of humanity and give up such ideas and beliefs that divide us on the basis of baseless dangerous grounds. It is better to live and let live than to kill or be killed. You cannot make world a better place if you must have your way that does not allow coexistence.

As for the argument about the true muslim, that is a nonstarter because to be a true muslim there has to be the true islam. If you cannot prove your own version of islam true then you have no right to condemn anyone else either who claims to be a muslim. One person's islam is as good as of anothers. So I would say that Indian muslims are every bit as good as pakistani muslims. I would say same thing about hindus and parsees, sikhs and all others. So let us learn to live with each other as equals in humanity. Our arms should be open to welcome indians to live in pakistan and vice versa. We should learn from each other and cooperate for betterment of our people and countries. What have we gained by going to wars in the past and future is even more dangerous, for now both the neighbours are armed with nucear weapons.

Moreover you cannot make friends by speaking harshly to others rather if you have any friends you stand to lose them that way. Dear armughal, take it from me, it is always nice to be nice. Be religious all you can be but remember that you were human being first. If you do good for humanity without discrimination you are truly a great person but if your beliefs make you cut out the very large part of humanity you could not be worse. Remember, nonhindus, nonmulsims, nonjews, nonparsees, nonchristians, nonsikhs etc etc out number all the rest.

Regards and all the best.

i think there is more good to be done practically than just some decorated words on the net....
ppl here have an attitude which deserves the sort of responses....

if someone slaps one cheeks, offer him the other is good enuff only as long as u think the other person will learn....
once u know he/she is just playing around, a slap back even harder is quite a good response on the net....

MMughal,

Some words of profound wisdom in your posts. We neeed to see mor from you.

Armughal,

Criticising India's muslim president for not being good enough muslim for you is height of hypocracy. Go read up on how much of a musilm Jinnah was himself. He was probably one of the most secular Pakistani leaders for whom creation of Pakistan was a political action more than religious one. Jinnah right from the beginning, maintained that in Pakistan all religions would be treated equally. He welcomed non-muslims with open arms. I won't give you the references because you can find them yourself in threads in GS elsewhere.

I know many Indian muslims and they resent to a man (and to a woman) the attitude you demonstrate towards their being good muslims.
They point out correctly to count the number of Arabs princes who descent on Mumbai in hot weather and then drink, gamble and spend nights with whores while still being the protectors of Islam in Arabia.

Would it be too much to expect you to think before you post?

^
so if arab princes r bad, that makes up for indians being bad????

and did i ever vote for jinnah to be the ruler of pakistan????

Indians are bad only in your warped India hating mind. Your views are devoid of any logic or reason. I refuse to either read your posts or to respond to them.