Does everything in Islam have to make sense and you to think about for you to practice it? Or do you follow Islam because Allah :swt: has commanded you to do something?
Lajawab, why doesn't Islam have to make sense to you? Spock didn't say that Islam is open to changes, he said everything can be explained based on logic and rationale. So according to him, you should be able to explain why pork is haram, rather than just saying, well it's haram cuz it's haram.
RD, if you see a hate message you need to confront it. Explain to that person why you think it's a hate msg, we've seen them on GS a number of times. Usually we just go in and remove it, and that member is free to protest in feedback. If you're smart enough to be offended by words, you should be able to confront them too.
I'm not sure that I understood your last para, are you saying that by exploring religion we may not be able to understand it all and end up with worse? In Madhanee's second post, we mentioned a word 'insecurities' don't you think that's the real problem?
You're telling everyone who doesn't agree with you or follow your thought process to get lost, Madhanee, Malik and even Lajawab, who do you want to talk to? Ppl who already agree with you, don't need to read your thread, rest are kicked out, do you think your words are worth anything in no one reads or tries to understand them?
Logic and reason…
Can you explain to me using logic and reason why going around a square construction made of black stones 7 times at least once in a lifetime so important that it is considered one of the 5 pillars of Islam?
I believe sense follows Islam around, not Islam following sense…
The eating of pork was forbidden when there was no concept of germs and bacteria in pig meat…
Thank god there were no mod-Muslims during the time of the Prophet :saw: and the Ashaba 
, otherwise logic and reason would have eaten away at the very core of Islamic teachings…
When Allah :swt: commands us to do something, it is logical, reasonable and wise to chuck logic and reason out the window and leave everything to faith…Make sense of it afterwards…
Yeah Lajo, but Jahil Muslim (anti of Mod Muslims) are quick to point out “illogicalism” in other faiths, specially Hindu faith and even Judaism and Christianity? Why can’t there be an Elephant God??
I think your beliefs (or your version of Islam) is rooted in deep hatred for everyone else, and it is found on hatred.
Lajjo chaand, do you even know what you're trying to say? No one in this thread, so far, has said that you can exclude pure Islamic teachings based on logic and rationale. Only claim was that everything can be explained, a fact you, my dear, should be proud of. That said, for me, any kind of prayer is logical because it bringers me emotionally closer to Allah swt.
What you're claiming is that we should 'blindly' follow what you think is the purest form of Islam, well any Mullah thinks his version is pure, if we don't ponder, try to make sense of what is being said etc, how would you conclude that you've 'found' true Islam. Point here is excluding parts versus understanding the truth, you seem to be mixing them.
Thank god, there were no pocket jihadi in the times of prophet pbuh, else Islam wouldn't have survived for this long.
mantiq aka logic is the basis of islam. why else would we be asked to question everything were told, instead of following merely our forefathers?
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*Originally posted by sabah: *
RD, if you see a hate message you need to confront it. Explain to that person why you think it's a hate msg, we've seen them on GS a number of times. Usually we just go in and remove it, and that member is free to protest in feedback. If you're smart enough to be offended by words, you should be able to confront them too.
I'm not sure that I understood your last para, are you saying that by exploring religion we may not be able to understand it all and end up with worse? In Madhanee's second post, we mentioned a word 'insecurities' don't you think that's the real problem?
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Sabah, I did'nt realize that such an easy interpretation of a well known Message of God swt would be so defficult to understand? unless there are to many opaque heads around.
My last para refers to several quranic surahs, and this is exactley what it means. Hard but true,,so go figuer,
Madhanee has not impressed me in any way nor do I consider him a 'standard' of evaluation for any thing thus pointless to ponder on what he says.
1st time I hear this word 'insecurities' and for what ?
There is no such thing in what we embrace as a faith
The answer is in the last para it self. Period
May I add that 'Silver bullets' are a myth, but still a wishful thinking for many.
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skhan: nice signature.
IMO, The more you make it an issue, the more they'll wind you up. Theres no point in taking it seriously. I dont think Islam is so insecure that its insulted or damaged by these comments. if its survived worser stuff, it can survive insignificant stuff like this, so let it go thru one ear and straight out the other.
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assalamu alaykum,
this guy who started the thread seems like a wahabi to me with his rigidity and narrow-mindedness.
yes, islam is perfect but each generation has people who renew it called mujaddids: because human society constantly evolves new mas'ail (problems) are faced which need to be addressed in the light of previous islamic teachings and principles of accepted fiqh (the four schools).
without discussion you get a stagnant society which is what wahabism is all about.
like a stagnant pond, it stinks.
^ and likewise stone throwers living in glass houses who restrict Islam to "four schools" are perhaps equally guilty of "rigidity and narrow-mindedness"
i did not restrict islam to four schools: it was merely a reference to the fact that within ahlus sunnah there are four accepted schools of thought.
you can still be a muslim outside the four but not a sunni.
V
^ okay, i'll phrase it this way then... ^ and likewise stone throwers living in glass houses who restrict ahlus sunnah to "four schools" are perhaps equally guilty of "rigidity and narrow-mindedness"
this has been the definition of ahlus sunnah for the past 1000 years, ever since the formulation of the 4 schools in fact:
so then even according to you the separation of Islam into four schools is a new thing, unknown in the first 400 years... none of the heads of these schools of thought - e.g. Abu Hanifah, al Shafi'i etc., ever said that ahlus sunnah is restricted to only those scholars and followers falling within four schools only... did they?
p.s. don't bother reading the earlier sections on hadith in Al-Albani Unveiled... they are amateurish and quite laughable in fact
actually i said over 1000 years...imam abu hanifa was a tabi' and met many sahaba. the other 3 madhahibs were within 50 years of him. therefore since the earliest times muslims have been united on following these madhhabs. the other madhhabs of sunniyat which existed did not survive and hence now you only can follow one of these four to be a sunni.
p.s. i still haven't seen a good rebuttal to al albani unveiled and besides many arab ulama have refuted that innovator albani, the watch-maker.
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*Originally posted by Asif: *
actually i said over 1000 years...
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Nice try but everyone can read what you said: "this has been the definition of ahlus sunnah for the past 1000 years". Where's the word "over" in that sentence?
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imam abu hanifa was a tabi' and met many sahaba. the other 3 madhahibs were within 50 years of him.
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Okay, then please kindly quote a scholar from "within 50 years" of Abu Hanifah who said that we all have to stick to one of the four madhabs?
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p.s. i still haven't seen a good rebuttal to al albani unveiled and besides many arab ulama have refuted that innovator albani, the watch-maker.
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It's a kid's book... doesn't really deserve a refutation... although refutations are available... the author seems clueless about hadith in particular
Islam is open to discussion and should be so- that is the way we can all learn a thing or two about the religion.As far as Im conserned if we dont bring certain issues out to talk about they'll just sit in that dark corner and gather dust.
What people mix with discussing Islam - is questioning it.One must not question what has been revealed to us by Allah.
However, to openly discuss the religion, one must set out with a fath...a faith so strong that it can withstand the discussions, the contradictions of others and so on.If a person thinks he/she doesnt have that faith to start with ,I do think that persons being out and open to some discussions might actually harm rather than benefit.
It is true that humans need constant assurances, about what our faith says about life and the issues related to it.And people are curious; they want to learn.Some might go out with the sole intention of ridiculing the faith, but many do wish to honestly increase their knowledge.
I think the biggest issue on this forum is that people start hurling personal insults and a lot of them start putting down the religion - thats when the trouble starts. If we can all put aside the petty issues, and discuss in a mature manner, this forum could be very interesting.