Thank you for enlightening me.
I for one believe everything in Islam can be justified with reason and logic, you just have to think hard, if they open such topics let them, in the end if you justify an Islamic concept with reason and rationale, its your faith that will grow ten folds.
I agree with Spock. Some Muslims on this board do not put the effort into clearing doubts in their head about Islam and when someone questions them they are abusive in return.
Using rational thought we can prove Islam, I don't see why threads are closed when someone questions Islam.
Islam was established and spread throught questioning of society and Muslims need to question themselves in many issues, when we do, we will realise that there are many things that we do that aren't based on Islam at all.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
....Using rational thought we can prove Islam, ....
[/QUOTE]
Please leave Islam alone. The last thing it needs is bunch of irrational beardos making bombastic and empty statements.
Great…Find reason and rationale in not being allowed to eat pork, Zabiha Porky and eat him…
I am sure if enough study is done, a reason and logic can arise whereby we can consume a McRib with some Budweiser…:BonApettite:
I agree with Raindance that Madhanee's reply was improper. Handling these kinds of replies demands a very patient character, which is probably not present in most of the people/Muslims on this forum. No one here is trained/equipped to do Daawa'h. So, an improper reaction in response is quite natural and probable.
Most of us use their personal limited knowledge and cut-pastes from web sites to discuss or answer the issues. I feel that most of the heated debates result in what they call "too many cooks spoil the broth." Unless the purpose is really knowledge seeking, discussions just for the sake of discussing is pointless in such forums.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raindance: *
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Compare my very 1st post on top of this thread against the very NEXT prompt of Madhanee,,,
Do you think his question was intended for any other purpose than what you see up there.. ??????? come on Sir! be fair now,,,
This is a prime example of Some one posting a genuine question and then expects a genuine reply,,,,he or she has to face this,,,???? ( not refering to this thread)
[/QUOTE]
I dont expect a dunce to understand what I just said. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support how pork has harmful effects, but those with their heads all the way up a pito/matoo’s rear will remain ‘lakeer ke faqeers’.
If not messing with the word of Allah :swt: and keeping the faith pristine in its purest form free from innovations and Bida’a is being a dunce, then I am a dunce…And so I believe were the Prophets, who when given a command by Allah :swt: didn’t use their reason and rationale and argue with Allah :swt:…
Wouldn’t it be funny if Hazrat Ibrahim :as: went: “Oh Allah, why do you want me to kill my only child whom I had after such a long time and late in life? It’s illogical, unreasonable and irrational…”
Oh, I get it…Maybe Ibrahim :as: was a dunce…
At least I am dunce enough to realize that man’s reason, intellect and rationale are futile, useless and baseless in front of Allah (swt)'s Wisdom…
But since you have so much reason and rationale to decipher the commands of Allah (swt) and have studied Islam in such depth, please…Be my guest…
I am happy being a lakeer ka faqeer…Because a straight path is what I am supposed to follow, and not deviate since according to my teachings, not deviating and questioning the word of God is wisdom…Not trying to be smart, but obedient…
OooK If I were to leap in the air why would I want to learn to walk.
Your response alone reeks of maturity. I guess my post was way over your head. But I reread your initial response and have a question ifyou had a specific thread in mind that you thought irrelevant why didn’t you mention it?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
I dont expect a dunce to understand what I just said. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support how pork has harmful effects, but those with their heads all the way up a pito/matoo's rear will remain 'lakeer ke faqeers'.
[/QUOTE]
so if tomorrow we genetically develop pork that is not harmful then it becomes halal?
Yeah right, same old twisting of words by you, its that trait that makes you a dunce. Aqal naam ki cheez Allah ne di hai tu istemaal karna seekh lo. Besides, youre nothing more than a first class hypocrite. And the examples that you gave, such as that of Hazrat Ibrahim, if you use your non-existent brain cells, you will find out the LOGICAL reason behind that too. Now go and reinsert your ‘siree’ where it belongs, and stop trying to get my attention, as youre not worth it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
so if tomorrow we genetically develop pork that is not harmful then it becomes halal?
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by 'we', if you're referring to the great ummah, then its light years away from even thinking of making such a feat in medical advancement.
^
ok, if someone else did it, wud it be halal????
^ Why are you so curious? You dying to taste it?
The lack of intellect on this particular forum surprises me. 'Islam is not open to discussion', what in the world does that imply. There are ALOT of people who discuss Islam and explore it, and have done a very good job, like Deedat. I agree the 'revision' part doesnt make sense, but then again, no one can come out here in this forum and revise Islam based on his will.
When a non-muslim comes upto you and shows interest in Islam, youre not supposed to just tell him 'you have to do this and that', you have to explain why he has to do all that if he wants to be a Muslim, and I think he/she deserves to know if he is making such a big decision for conversion.
Thank you for your valuable participation, and derailing this thread.
man..there are so many zealots in this forum who pretend to be muslims. I am ready to defend Islam but I need to know whom I am against.
'If not messing with the word of Allah swt and keeping the faith pristine in its purest form free from innovations'
Don't you use logic and rationale to understand Allah swt's message in its purest form too? Don't we need to understand logic behind why we're ordered to pray / differentiate between haraam/halaal etc? How do you gain better knowledge without understanding it?
RD, who're trying to protect by not allowing discussions? Don't you trust your fellow Muslim brethrens abilities to understand and explain Islam or is it Islam that needs protection?
^^ I would not doubt the ability of Muslims brethrens to explain few religious aspects of Islam or queries or how to practice the religion.
Based on my observation, I’ve noted that there are 'elements' that would turn an ordinary religious discussion into an excuse for Islam bashing. It might not show in the format of an elaborated text or a post, but rather a cluster of words or slang’s between the lines.
Also the wrong use of 'Signature message' which can be changed frequently after a 'Hate message' has been relayed.
Did I see such a hate message? ,, Yes! Sadly I did ,, and this is the reason that prompted me to open this thread.
To your other logic based point;
The curious nature of humans might lure us to understand Logics, quest for more knowledge, innovate and embrace the technologies but reject the 'un-explained. This is how far human choices can go.
The other phenomenal of Conceptions - Birth - Ageing - Fate - Death Infinity - Universe would remain a probing thought in our minds and we are encouraged to put our greater thoughts to it, but can never control them. Why ?? (This might explain the fact that Humans are programmed to live unto a certain age and not beyond)
Therefore, one is free to follow the faith or reject it based on his/her
Geniuses. Allah swt has given this choice to us by explaining the consequences as well.
In easy terms we see the message as;
You love me - You love me Not
You believe in me - You believe in me Not
You hate me - You hate me Not
One may discuss all they can but,,,
The choices are clear and the consequences either beneficial or fatal.
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I’m disappointed in your post - Obviously created to divert the topic
to other un meaningful doors to crept through and open a can of worms.
Go away and take a rest with your 6 pack as I can see you’re drooling all over my carpet
OK…I give up…You are right…Islam is open to change using man’s reason and rational…Judging by that let’s break down your post…
One of Islam’s teaching is humbleness and humility…You, having used your intellect and rationality, have insulted me, cursed me and belittled me…By using your intellectual prowess you have shown how much of a moderate Muslim you are by having succesfully using reason turned the sublimity of Islam’s gentle message into a hammer to bash my head in…Good going…
Another of Islam’s teaching is patience and perseverance…You, having used your intellect and rationality, resorted to actions which speak of frustration, anger and impatience…In this regard you have shown how well moderate Muslims are able to carry the true message of Islam by slapping insults and humiliation across the face of anyone who disagrees with them…
Another of Islam’s edict is to teach by example…You, having used your intellect and rationality, shown what an impatient, angry and frustrated person you are, thereby turning away from yourself even those who might remotely be interested in Islam, merely by speaking the way you did by using the reasoning and rationality that you are so proud of…Bravo…
It is truly a loss to my non-existent brain-cells and tiny intellect not to be able to get the attention of such a noble and great person as yourself…Someone from whose reasoning and intellect about Islam I can learn patience, humility, restraint, humbleness and the most important lesson of all: Respect…
I don;t know how I’ll bear the loss of distancing myself from a teacher of nobility as yourself…Your beautiful message of telling me to put my ‘siree’ where it belongs is indeed a message worthy of great Muslim men…Especially moderate ones…
^ Admit it, even the thread started said you made no sense and tried to derail the topic. And yeah, this post is not about how I should be following Islamic rules of a conversation. You changed the topic, manipulated it, maybe you did it on purpose, maybe you did it because you cant comprehend basic things. I never said Islam is open to change using a man's reason and rational, even a dunce can read what I wrote. I said, everything is Islam makes sense if you think about it.