Islam for Women or is it?

[ravage]

@psyah

Peace ravage

Walekum Peace!

You say that I try to argue that the number of witnesses is to lessen responsibility and then you assert that this is treatment of special needs children.

You have forced a comparison based on the assumption that:

a) treatment of children is debasing
b) that women are being treated as such

I didn’t make this comparison … let me put it another way for you to understand … if I open a door for a woman is that to be considered polite or is it considering her invalid?

Should I do something to make the life of others better or will they turn their backs on me saying that I am being controlling, condescending, etc …

That really depends. If you knew for example that the person did not like others opening doors for them (and there are people like that) your opening a door for them would certainly not be an act of politeness.

Similarly it is all good to say that you’re trying to take care of women, but what of women who dont want to be taken care of, assuming the care also brings with it, as it often does, less palatable aspects of patriarchy?

The treatment we do of children in whatever they do should be out of love and for dependent women also. This is not equating women with children rather it shows us that the softness we need to use with children is the same with women.

Should women treat men like children? After all, if its just about love then women should also protect men like children.

As a man you may not realise this straight away, but show me an honest woman who will not love to be treated nicely even when she is angry or sad with you. Instead many men get angry at their women and that will stretch the conflict.

Show me an honest man who will not love to be treated nicely when he is angry or sad with his wife? Im not sure why theres a gender difference in that particular argument.

There is a verse in the Qur’an that shows when Maryam (AS) was born that the male is not like the female, according to the fuqaha they say that this puts the advantage on women. To say they are better than men at many things if Islam did not give men authority then we would be subdued by their superior abilities.

By doing this a sense of parity develops and we truly become more equal.

Thats an interesting argument. Better than the child one :k:

Even though there is a limit for men in terms of hitting, should a woman hit her husband for no big reason at all is she held accountable to it according to Qur’an? My wife may thump me one but I will just smile back and she knows that I cannot hit her.

Thats what I was saying, that if there is no Islamic injunction against your wife thumping you then we dont really have an issue. If anything this is just a recommendation on how men should thump without placing bounds on any retaliation. Which would be sensible given the propensity for men to thump much harder than women can. Which is good but seems like a far-fetched interpretation.

Surely we do this with children i.e. if they show us ingratitude and abuse we calm them down or pour out more love for them, but to equate the two is wrong. The nurturing process is for the children and a caring process or nurturing the relationship can be the similitude you apply to the case of women.

Once again, I dont like the children analogy. Unless you’re prepared to be treated like a child yourself (and that isnt obvious at the moment) it is certainly patronizing. In the same way some imperialists used to argue that its a good thing we have these colonies because we take care of them and treat them with kindness.

I hope this has made it clearer.

Fundamentally I think you’re a nice guy and therefore your interpretations are also couched in very nice language and have a nice spin to them. I am not sure they are very general though.