There is a common belief in claim that Islam requires absolute equality among believers.
Is it true in practice and theory?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
MIND U,
the correct stanza instead of islam require is islam teaches equality not only among believers but also among non believers,
its not like other relegion teaching u high class or low class its just equality and nothing else,
and the divisions u see today like wahabis and etcc etc... are made my some illiterate people and has nothing to do with the base of islam.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Ok, if it is all true..why Islamic societies are so voilent?
Are not Maulvies-mullah a superior class among Muslims?
Are men and women equal?
Ethnic eqality..mostely Muslim states fight against each other?
As per maximum verses of quran...there can be no compromise with Kufrs...how one can justify eqality with non-Muslims?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
The answer to your first two questions are NO. The answer to the third is Islam is perfect and Muslims are not.
Righteousness of the Faith…
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
anjjan i suggest you stop talkin about the verses in the Quran if you do not know the context of them. Thank You.
Righteousness of the Faith...
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Anjaan, please enlighten us about shudrs, dalits and such. Once you are done do come back with your queries refarding Islam...until than keep your pie hole shut regarding islam.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
read the other thread…you will be enlightened. why are you de-railing this thread?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
nikhil, I dont need to read the other thread. If your ilk insists on taking potshots at Islam be prepared to answer questions regarding your own belief. If you cannot than stay out and dont let the door hit you in the back.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
the other thread is exactly what you are asking for. if you want in on the potshots just go there…no need for repetition.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Ok, if it is all true..why Islamic societies are so voilent?
A small proportion of Muslims are violent. Similarly, you will find violent Hindus, Jews, Christians, etc. who are just as violent if not more. History is filled with such instances. Perhaps a bit of research might enlighten you. Therefore, Islam cannot be blamed for the unjustified actions of some Muslims.
Are not Maulvies-mullah a superior class among Muslims?
It's piety that makes one better than the other as well as devotion and sincerity towards Islam. Nothing else makes one superior or lower in front of Allah (SWT). Just because one feels superior over another is an issue that he/she would have to deal with. This is not linked with Islam.
Are men and women equal?
Yes, men and women are equal in Islam.
**Ethnic eqality..mostely Muslim states fight against each other?**
Again, this is something that people have it in their minds where they feel they have to fight against their Muslim brothers in sisters. It is not something that Islam has ever preached. Islam is strictly against it.
As per maximum verses of quran...there can be no compromise with Kufrs...how one can justify eqality with non-Muslims?
I believe non-Muslims in Muslim countries are free to practice their religion, so long as it isn't against Shariah (this is how I believe it is). In addition to that, non-Muslims in Muslim lands are supposed to pay Jizya (a type of tax) after which the state is responsible for protecting non-Muslims (this is what I can remember from memory).
Funny how easily you told Kaleem to go through another thread to find out what your beliefs have to say about his queries, yet you couldn't do the same (by first performing a search) and instead started a thread on questions that have been extensively discussed in the past.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Many Sudras, dalits accepted Islam (religion of equality). Can you tell me how many of their descendants could reach the top official or political posts in Pakistan?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Sadiya, it is easy to make prase worthy statements, but when we find absolutely opposite in ideals and practical…
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/066310.htm
Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
February 23, 2004
Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
There is a common belief in claim that Islam requires absolute equality among believers. In Islam, everyone is the same regardless of ethnicity, age, etc. Of course, there is a principle of radical equality in Christianity as well and Christians haven’t always done much better than Muslims in translating that principle to action. Why?
Ishtiaq Ahmed writes in Pakistan’s Daily Times:
*t must be emphasised that although Muslims were considered the primary nation, within the Muslim community equality among believers was understood only as a spiritual norm. Ethnic distinctions, family and kinship lineages and other such factors mattered a great deal in conferring rights and privileges. Slavery was widely practised and women were accorded an inferior status both in law as well as in social practice. It can be argued that the Islamic heritage bequeathed a strong tradition of government but a weak tradition of citizenship.
Muslims were expected to submit to the authority of the state and the ruler as long as the supremacy of Sharia was recognised and enforced in important sectors of life. This applies to the so-called purist Islamic states such as Iran and Saudi Arabia as much as to the other states. It is to be noted that the oil-rich Arab states sharply differentiate between their indigenous Arab populations and other Muslims. It is virtually impossible for non-indigenous Muslims to acquire citizenship of these countries or to inter-marry with the local population or set up independent business or own property.
One might imagine that if any nation would enforce the ideals of Islam, it would be Saudi Arabia - after all, they do promote themselves as the defenders of pure Islam. If even they won’t establish real equality among all Muslims within their territory…
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
In practice there is no equality in muslim populations in theory yes in Islam all beleivers are equal
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
Ok so what is your point Anjaan? Whatvere grieviance you have against Islam does not change the fact that Islam remains the religion to follow for all of mankind. You can disagree with it. However, your thinly veiled hatred and overt agenda is clear. If you do not like Islam or muslims by all means stay the eff off this board and go mingle with like minded hindus.
P.S. How many articles do you want me to pull up regarding atrocities committed by hinuds to fellow hindus be it dalit, shudrs or brahamans?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
anjjan, this article has nothing to do with Islam or what Islam preaches.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
If anyone wants to discuss Islam someone immediately comes over with such statements.
Is it a crime to question irregularities in Islam?
The funniest reply in any such discussions is that Muslims and Islam are two different things.
How can I understand it…a total failure?
Yes Kaleem…I repeat, how many descendants of former Sudras and dalits have achieved a respectful life in Pakistan after accepting the religion of equality?
A verse in Quran asks the man to beat his woman…..how can you justify it with contexts?
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
[quote]
The funniest reply in any such discussions is that Muslims and Islam are two different things.
How can I understand it…a total failure?
[/quote]
I agree with your legitimate concerns.
Considering Islam and Muslims as two different entities is quite ridiculous to say the least.
If we base the argument..
- What Islam preaches, muslims dont follow and what muslims do is not what islam preaches * then we are presenting Islam as very weak religion, which has no control on its followers
Now comming to your questions
[quote]
Many Sudras, dalits accepted Islam (religion of equality). Can you tell me how many of their descendants could reach the top official or political posts in Pakistan?
[/quote]
I dont get what you are asking. can you be more specific what these people are known as now in Pakistan. Regardless of what new name they have for their caste, I can assure you that in Pakistan there is no discrimination on the basis of caste for achieving any higher post in any dept. We are not even aware of the caste our prime ministers or presidents
belonged to. Similarly, there is no discrimination in civil sector or bureaucrasy.
[quote]
A verse in Quran asks the man to beat his woman
[/quote]
Correction !. The holy quran 'allows' man to beat his wife in case of disobedience.
My mother used to beat me when i did something wrong, I dont know if it is sactioned in quran or any other scriptures. But I am glad she did that, because it saved me from going astray.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
// Correction !. The holy quran 'allows' man to beat his wife in case of disobedience.
My mother used to beat me when i did something wrong, I dont know if it is sactioned in quran or any other scriptures. But I am glad she did that, because it saved me from going astray.//
And why is it not santioned that a woman is allowed to beat a man in case of disobedience. It seems that you have not grown up from your child hood beatings. Here we are discussing two grown up individuals who have the ability to think for themselves and who are perfectly capable of distinguishing between right and wrong !!!.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
In Islam superiority is not hereditary, in Hinduism it is.
Caste sytem and bullcrap are unIslamic, it use to be practiced in Pakistan but not anymore, it was Hindu influence but now Alhhamdulillah it's fast disappearing from Pakistan and there are lots of people I know who are marrying people who use to be considered low caste, the new generation don't give a toss about caste and know that it's unIslamic and are educating their elders.
It’s true that men and women have different roles and responsibilities in line with their nature, men are the head of the household and protectors of women and respinsible for keeping check on their family but both genders are equal.
Also it’s true Islam does allow slavery but there are strict guidelines which Islam lays down to be followed, we read that the early generation of Muslims treated their slaves like family and clothed and fed them even sometimes with better than what they used for themselves and their families. Islam highly encourages the freeing of slaves, if anyone of them were to become free he had the same roles and responsibilities as somebody who’d never been a slave.
Islamic approved slavery is not like how Christian Americans treated Blacks, or how Christian Brits treated the Indians and Africans during the colonial years, or how Brahmin Hindus treated the lower ‘slave’ castes. I mean the Christians didn't even allow a Black person to pray in their churches that's how bad their segregation was, the Hindus didn't allow low castes and untouchables to enter their Mandir or read the scriptures or perform religious rituals, many still don't and consider them filthyyy.
Re: Islam, Equality, and Ethnicity
//In Islam superiority is not hereditary, in Hinduism it is.//
The topic is specific to Islam and not to any other religion. Please reply to the point.
When you say that caste is unIslamic and the present generation is not following this, the same can be said about hinduism also. I am an Indian Catholic and have friends from the high caste to the lowest caste. Caste is never a matter of debate. True there are instances of racism, but they are few and far in between.
When you say that the early muslims treated thier slaves very well, y wasnt the customs followed....