Islam and Womens rights (debate)

[Stomp]

Salaam’

I was debating an Atheist at university and he hit me with a heck load of verses which was totally out of context. Obviously I told him the verses were out of context, however that weakened my position.
So anyway, what I am doing is looking up the verses putting them in context and then providing an explanation to them, I will need help on the explanation as I am not a Islamic scholar I cannot try to interpret them myself so am looking for someone is knowledge on this and would give an explanation I will add the explanation I find myself, also if someone could check that would be great.

OK if you need to add explanations then, please add your explanation within the “# [Explanation place holder] (+)” just after ““ and before “]” this just makes it a hold load easier for me.

The Cow

And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women.–2:282 (*1)

(This is the same verse in context I have the English Translation Of The Holy Qur’an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
[Note from now on I will refer to them just as verse in context or (*2) – see footnotes (*2) right at the end for info]

Verse in context:

The Cow -282. O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah. For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do. (*2)

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It’s OK to have sex with your wives on the night of the fast. 2:187 (*1)

Verse in context:

The Cow- 187. Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah. Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint. (*2)

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Menstruation is a sickness. Don’t have sex with menstruating women. 2:222 (*1)

Verse in context:

222. They ask thee concerning women’s courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean. (*2)

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Have sex with your women whenever and as often as you like. 2:223 (*1)

223. Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe. (*2)

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Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are “a degree above them.” 2:228 (*1)

228.Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (*2)

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A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282 (*1)

282. O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah. For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do. (*2)

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The Women

Marry of the women two, or three, or four. 4:3 (*1)

3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (*2)

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Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11 (*1)

11. Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah. and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. (*2)

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Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15 (*1)

15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. (*2)

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You may not forcibly inherit women, unless they flagrantly lewd. 4:19 (*1)

19. O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. (*2)

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Instructions for exchanging wives 4:20 (*1)

20. But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong? (*2)

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You can’t have married women, unless they are captives. 4:24 (*1)

24. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. (*2)

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Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34 (*1)

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (*2)

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Don’t pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43 (*1)

O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again. (*2)

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Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98 (*1)

97. When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: “In what (plight) Were ye?” They reply: “Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth.” They say: “Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?” Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge!
98. Except those who are (really) weak and oppressed - men, women, and children - who have no means in their power, nor (a guide-post) to their way.
99. For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive: For Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again. (*3) (*2)

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They invoke in his (Allah’s) stead only females. 4:117 (*1)

(The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities:They call but upon satan the persistent rebel! (*2)

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A man cannot treat his wives fairly. 4:129 (*1)

129. Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self- restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (*2)

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18. “Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females.” 4:176 (*1)

176. They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: Allah directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. If it is a man that dies, leaving a sister but no child, she shall have half the inheritance: If (such a deceased was) a woman, who left no child, Her brother takes her inheritance: If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance (between them): if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female. Thus doth Allah make clear to you (His law), lest ye err. And Allah hath knowledge of all things. (*2)

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**The Table Spread **
19.

When it’s time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can’t find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6 (^) (*1)

7. O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful. (^- 7) (*2)

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Hud

Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 11:78 (*1)

And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practising abominations. He said: “O my people! Here are my daughters: they are purer for you (if ye marry)! Now fear Allah, and cover me not with shame about my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?” (*2)

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Al-Hijr
21.

Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 15:71 (*1)

71. He said: “There are my daughters (to marry), if ye must act (so).” (*2)

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The Pilgrimage
22.

When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant women will suffer miscarriages, nursing mothers with forget their babies. 22:1-2 (*1)

1. O mankind! fear your Lord! for the convulsion of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a thing terrible! (*2)

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2. The Day ye shall see it, every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling- babe, and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah. (*2)

You don’t have to be modest around your wives or your slave girls “that your right hand possess.” 23:6 (*1)

6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame, (*2)

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** Light**
24.

If you accuse an honorable women of adultery, be sure to bring four witness. Otherwise you will receive 80 lashes. 24:4 (*1)

4. And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5. Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful. (*2)

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A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6 (*1)

6. And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; (*2)

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7. And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8. But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9. And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
10. If it were not for Allah.s grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed). (*2)

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Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31 (*1)

31. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. (*2)

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**The Clans **
27.

If Muhammad’s wives are good, Allah will give them “an immense reward.” 33:28-29 (*1)

28. O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.
29. But if ye seek Allah and His Messenger, and the Home of the Hereafter, verily Allah has prepared for the well-doers amongst you a great reward. (*2)

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The wives of Muhammad will be punished double for lewdness. (And that is easy for Allah.) 33:30 (*1)

30. O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah. (*2)

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The wives of Muhammad are not like other women. They must not leave their houses. 33:32-33 (*1)

32. O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear ((Allah)), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just. (*2)

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33. And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. (*2)

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When Allah or Muhammad decide that a man and a woman should marry, they must marry. 33:36 (*1)

36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. (*2)

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Allah gave Zeyd to Muhammad in marriage. This was so that all Muslims would know that it’s OK to marry your adopted son’s ex-wife. 33:37 (*1)

37. Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: “Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.” But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah.s command must be fulfilled. (*2)

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Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51 (*1)

50. O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful. (*2)

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51. Thou mayest defer (the turn of) any of them that thou pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest: and there is no blame on thee if thou invite one whose (turn) thou hadst set aside. This were nigher to the cooling of their eyes, the prevention of their grief, and their satisfaction - that of all of them - with that which thou hast to give them: and Allah knows (all) that is in your hearts: and Allah is All- Knowing, Most Forbearing. (*2)

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If men must speak to Muhammad’s wives they must speak from behind a curtain. And no one must ever marry one of his wives. 33:53 (*1)

53. O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet’s houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah.s Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah.s sight an enormity. (*2)

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But it’s OK for Muhammad’s wives to talk with certain people. 33:55 (*1)

55. There is no blame (on these ladies if they appear) before their fathers or their sons, their brothers, or their brother’s sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the (slaves) whom their right hands possess. And, (ladies), fear Allah. for Allah is Witness to all things. (*2)

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Women must cover themselves when in public. 33:59 (*1)

59. O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful (*2)

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** Those Who Set the Ranks **
36.

Those who “did wrong” will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved). 37:22-23 (*1)

22. “Bring ye up”, it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped-
23. "Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire! (*2)

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37. But the single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48 (*1)

40. But the sincere (and devoted) Servants of Allah,-
41. For them is a Sustenance determined, (*2)

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**Sad **
38.

Female companions await those who enter the Gardens of Eden on the Day of Reckoning. 38:52 (*1)

52. And beside them will be chaste women restraining their glances, (companions) of equal age. (*2)

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**Smoke **
39.

Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with “fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.” 44:54 (*1)

54. So; and We shall join them to Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes. (*2)

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**The Mount **
40.

Allah will reward those in the Garden with beautiful wives with wide, lovely eyes. 52:20 (*1)

20. They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes. (*2)

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** The Star **
41.

Those who disbelieve in the afterlife give female names to angels. 53:27 (*1)

27. Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names. (*2)

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**The Beneficent **
42.

Allah will give those in the Garden women of modest gaze whom neither man nor jinn have touched before them. 55:56 (*1)

56. In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;- (*2)

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Allah will reward believing men with “fair ones” (beautiful women) in heaven. 55:71-72 (*1)

71. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?-
72. Companions restrained (as to their glances), in (goodly) pavilions;- (*2)

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**The Event **
44.

Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56:17-23 (*1)

17. Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness),
18. With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains:
19. No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:
20. And with fruits, any that they may select:
21. And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire.
22. And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-
23. Like unto Pearls well-guarded. (*2)

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Allah made virgins to be lovers and friends to those on his right hand. 56:36-37 (*1)

36. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -
37. Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- (*2)

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**Mutual Disillusion **
46.

Your wives and children are your enemies. They are to you only a temptation. 64:14-15 (*1)

14. O ye who believe! Truly, among your wives and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if ye forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
15. Your riches and your children may be but a trial: but in the Presence of Allah, is the highest, Reward. (*2)

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**Divorce **
47.

Instructions for divorcing your wives. 65:1-6 (*1)

1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.
2. Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,
3. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.
4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
5. That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.
6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father’s) behalf. (*2)

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**Banning **
48.

Muhammad’s wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 66:5 (*1)

5. It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins. (*2)

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The wives of 66:Noah and 66:Lot (who were both righteous) betrayed their husbands and are now in the Fire. 66:10 (*1)

10. Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: “Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!” (*2)

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**The Ascending Stairways **
50.

Doom is about to fall on all disbelievers. Only worshippers (Muslims) and those who preserve their chastity (except with their wives and slave girls) will be spared from “the fires of hell” that are “eagar to roast.” 70:1-30 (*1)

1. A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall-
2. The Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,-
3. (A Penalty) from Allah, Lord of the Ways of Ascent.
4. The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:
5. Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment).
6. They see the (Day) indeed as a far-off (event):
7. But We see it (quite) near.
8. The Day that the sky will be like molten brass,
9. And the mountains will be like wool,
10. And no friend will ask after a friend,
11. Though they will be put in sight of each other,- the sinner’s desire will be: Would that he could redeem himself from the Penalty of that Day by (sacrificing) his children,
12. His wife and his brother,
13. His kindred who sheltered him,
14. And all, all that is on earth,- so it could deliver him:
15. By no means! for it would be the Fire of Hell!-
16. Plucking out (his being) right to the skull!-
17. Inviting (all) such as turn their backs and turn away their faces (from the Right).
18. And collect (wealth) and hide it (from use)!
19. Truly man was created very impatient;-
20. Fretful when evil touches him;
21. And niggardly when good reaches him;-
22. Not so those devoted to Prayer;-
23. Those who remain steadfast to their prayer;
24. And those in whose wealth is a recognised right.
25. For the (needy) who asks and him who is prevented (for some reason from asking);
26. And those who hold to the truth of the Day of Judgment;
27. And those who fear the displeasure of their Lord,-
28. For their Lord’s displeasure is the opposite of Peace and Tranquillity;-
29. And those who guard their chastity,
30. Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, (*2)

[Explanation place holder] (+)

You don’t have to be chaste around your wives or your slave girls. 70:29-30 (*1)

29. And those who guard their chastity,
30. Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, (*2)

[Explanation place holder] (+)

Palm Fibre
52.

Abu Lahab will die and be plunged in flaming Fire. His wife will have on her neck a halter of palm fiber. 111:1-5 (*1)

1. Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!
2. No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
3. Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!
4. His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-
5. A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck! (*2)

[Explanation place holder] (+)

=========
Footnotes:
(*1) – Supposedly versus taken from the Qu’ran by sceptics annotated which tell Muslims to mistreat women.
(*2) – Verses in context using the English translation of the Holy Qur’an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
(*3) - This means I have quoted more then one verse as it gives a broader context.

[Explanation place holder] (+) – Just a place holder to add commentary/explanation to the verse for later

(^) – This means there is a mistake here, by sceptics annotated. I.e. the verse number is wrong.
(^ - X) refers to the correct verse number where ‘X’ is the number of the actual verse.

References:
Verses out of context taken from: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.c…women/long.html - The Sceptic’s annotated.
Yusaf Ali verses taken from: http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_tra...ation_index.php - Harun Yahya

[Yudishthir]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

If I can help you, then the following link is the COMPLETE REFERENCE to verses in the Koran Regarding Women. It is an authorized translation by Dr. Khalifa.

Its titled : Al-Neesa (Order of revelation 92, Verses 176).

Link:
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura4.htm
I guess it should help.

[itsme01]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

:salam:
^ Reference from that site will not be held high - cuz dr. Khalifa was a kufr - the site contains many things that go against the teachings of Islam.

For Online Translation use this rather:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/transliteration/
:wsalam:

ps: Stomp? whats the point of this thread?

[Stomp]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@itsme01

^ Reference from that site will not be held high - cuz dr. Khalifa was a kufr - the site contains many things that go against the teachings of Islam.

For Online Translation use this rather:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/transliteration/

ps: Stomp? whats the point of this thread?

You missed what I was saying. I said I was debating with someone and he said Islam abuses women and I said prove it and he brought those verses and referred me to that website. So what I am trying to do is to put those verses in context and provide a commentary/explanation to them.

[Stomp]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@Yudishthir

If I can help you, then the following link is the COMPLETE REFERENCE to verses in the Koran Regarding Women. It is an authorized translation by Dr. Khalifa.

Its titled : Al-Neesa (Order of revelation 92, Verses 176).

Link:
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura4.htm
I guess it should help.

They are submitters. Many Sunni Muslims don’t regard Submitters to be Muslims.

[itsme01]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

^ no Muslim considers a person to be Muslim if that person says that there is a prophet after Prophet Muhammad [PBUH].

[Yudishthir]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@Stomp

They are submitters. Many Sunni Muslims don’t regard Submitters to be Muslims.

Why is that so ? Its quite fallicious and silly. Dr. Khalifa is a renowned person in Koran. He probably knows more Koran than all of Gupshuppies put together and those Afghan clerics who want to kill a Christian.

He is criticized by Islamic scholars, because he discovered some mathematical facts about the Koran.

These mathematical facts of Koran are interesting, and cant be coincidence:
http://www.submission.org/simple.html

Mathematical miracles in the Koran:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/

[syedpk]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

Absolutely without following kalima one cant be a muslim.We believe in khatam e nabuwat and mohammed salahu alehay wahlahay wasalam is the last prophet of allah.

[tmx305]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

the poor guy is trying to get some material together for a debate concerning women's rights in Islam, and youre helping him by arguing about who is muslim and who is not.

[nadeem_Shad]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@tmx305

the poor guy is trying to get some material together for a debate concerning women’s rights in Islam, and youre helping him by arguing about who is muslim and who is not.

In every debate that I held with any western man, the question of woman’s rights is raised. You ask any proof for Darwins theory, the answer comes “First, look at yourself, you donot give rights to women.” Yes, we should discuss this amd the Muslims answer this question but instead of whipping us with this question, try to answer what we ask.

Indeed, our philosophical argumentation in the past has been quite fallicious on the question of woman. I donot say it from the standpoint of some kind of liberalism though we learned a lot when we interacted with the liberal tradition of the west. But this happens and happens all the time. I donot know about Khalifa, and try to judge him only after reading his views. But one things is clear if he has to say something he has to say it from within Islamic tradition. If he doesn’t beleive in Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) he is non-Muslim. We would till like to engage with him in a dialogue but by takling him as an outsider. Furthermore, you cannot judge Quran by using science as a standard. Reason is very straightforward - Scientefic theories are no Universal Truths. They are constantly vulnerable to rejection. On the other hand, Quran consists of Universal Truths. Thus, Truth cannot be judged by something that might be closer to truth but not the truth itself. If Khalifa is trying to judge Quran scientefically, he is making a logical mistake.

I would try to explain the verses you have produced herein. It will take some time. But this explanation would not help you much because you need to have have certain degrees of empathy to understand it, which apparently you donot seem having.

[Fret_Wizard]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

This is interesting. I'd also like to know the explanations to some of those verses.

[Stomp]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

Hello! I asked for help. Not a discussion on it!

[nadeem_Shad]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

U will get help. You know it is not a task that can be accomplished overnight. First of all, we shall deal with the verses dealing with the women issues. I shall present here a metaphysical theory, derived from Quran of course by a contemporary Muslim philosopher, defining the gender relationships. I would like to add some observations of my own on the topic and then we shall give explanations of the verses quoted above. By the way, it is not the first time I have come across these verse, taken out of context, from this particular website you chose.

Hopefully from tomorrow I shall start my job.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

Stomp, I’m sort of preoccupied these days. However, if you time on your hands and wish to find out more about the verses you’ve quoted, then you may want to check out www.tafsir.com

It’ll take you a while to find the tafsir for all the verses, but it’ll be worth it, insha’Allah.

[Lahore_981]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

Stomp,

If this is just for the sake of discussion, I can help. Though I am myself quite busy and cannot write properly on such topics with details as I will be out of the country for the next 3 days......

But I am sure, till I come back, others can help you with this. My suggestion, take one verse at a time. It is very confusing and the discussion can derail easily...... without any proper outcome...

Lahore 981

[Stomp]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

Actually, guys. I've found many verses which give good commentary on the verses and explanations. The problem is each explanation is pretty long, and goes beyond the scope of the topic if you get what I mean. I'll have to be typing heck loads of text, some are in PDF format, which I will have to write down.

This is going to take a very long time, at the moment I'll start it off and for each explanation, I'll add a link which will explain the verse in much greater detail. I think that will be better then just adding the explanation I think adding a separate link for the explanation will be better, if I don't do that the topic will be way too big.

Also I have to add footnotes and references, which is another headache. So I need all the help I can get.

[Stomp]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@Sadiyah

Stomp, I’m sort of preoccupied these days. However, if you time on your hands and wish to find out more about the verses you’ve quoted, then you may want to check out www.tafsir.com

It’ll take you a while to find the tafsir for all the verses, but it’ll be worth it, insha’Allah.

The website dosen’t work for me.

And yes, am going to take each verse at a time, I don’t want to make a mistake.

[picoico]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

@Stomp

Salaam’

I was debating an Atheist at university and he hit me with a heck load of verses which was totally out of context. Obviously I told him the verses were out of context, however that weakened my position.

How did that weaken your position? Not only are some verses out of context, many have NOTHING to do with legalities, and thus fall squarely outside the rhetoric of "rights". I mean...so Abu Lahab's wife is going to hell...boo freaking hoo...

So, step 1: cull the list to those that are actually relevant.

If anything, quoting so many verses that have nothing to do with the topic at hand shows the unthinking nature of those who you are debating with. They're already in a weakened position because of it, to the point that maybe they shouldn't be taken seriously. You should let them know, and with all due respect raise your own standards of engagement a bit.

So, let's cull the list.

[Muslim_Queen]

Re: Islam and Womens rights (debate)

**The Cow

Quote:
And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women.–2:282 (1)*

This particular statement in the The Holy Quran has been abused by both faithful believers and attackers from all camps. It is presented by them in a generalized form with a concluding statement that Islam considers women’s testimony to be half that of men.

The above verse does not talk about testimony in general but only presents one case basically involving financial transactions. It doesn’t state any generalization of women’s testimony being half that of men, or that two women will equal one man. If interpretation is sought, then a positive one would be that the The Holy Quran wants to protect women from being unfairly influenced or pressurized by men. As support for the woman another woman is
supplemented, so that if one errs the other reminds her.

Not to put down women in any way, but statistics show that women are more difficult as witnesses in courts of law and have been found more guilty of perjury than men. The The Holy Quran recognizes this difference in men and women, be it social or biological and corrects for it to support the woman from being manipulated. The end purpose is justice which shouldn’t offend any reasonable person.

In different circumstances however, one woman’s testimony is given more weight than one man’s testimony in the The Holy Quran, as it can override it. This case would be when a man (husband) accuses a woman (his wife) of cheating in a relationship but has no witness except his own testimony, which is against her testimony (The Holy Quran 24:6-9).

• Islam based on the The Holy Quran which is very different to the Islam that Muslim masses believe in, gave women the right to property ownership and a voice in legal testimony centuries before such “revolutionary” ideas were even dreamed of by Europeans and their US counterparts.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/liberation.htm

---

The issue of two women witnesses in place of one man is the concern of the present treatise. As will become clear to the sincere and objective reader, the intellectual status of a Muslim woman is neither marred nor degraded by the commandment that if two Muslim male witnesses are not available then one Muslim male and two Muslim females should be invited to witness. Rather, this injunction is in perfect harmony with the nature and psychology of the woman as will become evident through quotations from psychologists, psychiatrists and medical research.

The passage of the Qur’an ‘Baqarah 2:282’ in which the above-mentioned requirement is made has usury, capital and debtor difficulties as its theme. Allah grants guidelines in matters relating to monetary obligations. Then business transactions are dealt with. In this section, the requirement to commit all transactions into writing is stated most emphatically (Reduce them to writing…). The section after this describes the responsibility of the scribe, or in modern parlance, the person responsible for drawing up the agreement. The following section describes the responsibility and the obligation of the person incurring the liability. The section after this explains how if the party that is liable cannot effectively draw up the contract - out of being deficient or weak mentally, or being unable to dictate - then his or her guardian should help draw out the contract and choose two suitable witnesses to observe. It must be understood that this situation arises if it is not possible for the liable party to draw out the contract by him/herself. The condition to put things into writing is still supreme.

The next section then explains that two men should be called to witness and if two men are not available (And if there are not two men…) then a man and two women. The legislation then continues and reminds most emphatically that one should not be complacent about putting all agreements into writing - no matter whether these agreements are major or minor as this is more Just in the sight of Allaah and more reliable as evidence. The passage of the Qur’aan further explains that for practical reasons it may not always be possible to commit on-the-spot agreements into writing. In this case, it is also recommended that it be witnessed. The section which follows then lays down the guidelines which should be followed in the event that no witnesses are present.

The purpose in giving the above outline is to draw attention to the fact the question of women witnesses relates, in this instance, to commercial agreements and is not a statement on their status.

A number of questions are raised when this section of the passage is read. The questions often posed include:

*- Do women have weaker memories than men ? Why should two women be needed in the place of one man ?

• Are women inferior to men ?*

In this scientific age we can explore the significance of this legislation. A great deal has been discovered since the early days of Islaam. And each day of advancement brings about a better understanding of the the last and final revelation from the Creator, Allaah to the creation, humankind.

As women, we are aware of the cyclical psychological strains that a woman has to encounter every month. The symptoms during early pregnancy, ante-natal and post-natal depressions, the phenomenon of menopause, the physiological and psychological problems due to infertility and last but not least the psychological problems faced after miscarriage.

It is under these situations that women can experience extraordinary psychological strains giving rise to depression, lack of concentration, slow-mindedness and short term memory loss. Let us examine these episodes in a bit more detail and with medical references from the scientific world. PMT is an umbrella term for more than 140 different symptoms and there is a lot of evidence that it causes a lot of unhappiness in many women, and consequently, to their families.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/why_two_women_witnesses.htm

These questions btw are very interesting, I would like to do research and see what others come up with. Unfortunately I’m also facing a busy schedule.

This is might not the best I can do, but I thought the above had some interesting ideas nonetheless.