In other post Queer asked for muslims contributions in science.
Here you go, let me know when to stop…
** Robert Briffault in the “Making of Humanity” London 1938 **
"It was under the influence of the arabs and Moorish revival of culture and not in the
15th century, that a real renaissance took place. Spain, not Italy, was the cradle of the
rebirth of Europe. After steadily sinking lower and lower into barbarism, it had reached the
darkest depths of ignorance and degradation when cities of the Saracenic world, Baghdad,
Cairo, Cordova, and Toledo, were growing centers of civilization and intellectual activity. It
was there that the new life arose which was to grow into new phase of human evolution. From
the time when the influence of their culture made itself felt, began the stirring of new life.
"It was under their successors at Oxford School (that is, successors to the Muslims of Spain)
that Roger Bacon learned Arabic and Arabic Sciences. Neither Roger Bacon nor later
namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method. Roger
Bacon was no more than one of apostles of Muslim Science and Method to Christian
Europe; and he never wearied of declaring that knowledge of Arabic and Arabic Sciences
was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge. Discussion as to who was the
originator of the experimental method....are part of the colossal misinterpretation of the origins
of European civilization. The experimental method of Arabs was by Bacon's time
widespread and eagerly cultivated throughout Europe.
"Science is the most momentous contribution of Arab civilization to the modern world;
but its fruits were slow in ripening. Not until long after Moorish culture had sunk back into
darkness did the giant, which it had given birth to, rise in his might. It was not science only
which brought Europe back to life. Other and manifold influence from the civilization of Islam
communicated its first glow to European Life.
"For Although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive
influence of Islamic Culture is not traceable, nowhere is it so clear and momentous as in
the genesis of that power which constitutes the permanent distinctive force of the modern
world, and the supreme source of its victory, natural science and the scientific spirit.
"The debt of our science to that of the Arabs does not consist in startling discoveries or
revolutionary theories, science owes a great deal more to Arab culture, it owes its
existence. The Astronomy and Mathematics of the Greeks were a foreign importation never
thoroughly acclimatized in Greek culture. The Greeks systematized, generalized and theorized,
but the patient ways of investigation, the accumulation of positive knowledge, the minute
method of science, detailed and prolonged observation and experimental inquiry were
altogether alien to the Greek temperament. Only in Hellenistic Alexandria was any
approach to scientific work conducted in the ancient classical world. What we call science
arose in Europe as a result of new spirit of enquiry, of new methods of experiment,
observation, measurement, of the development of mathematics, in a form unknown to the
Greeks. That spirit and those methods were introduced into the European world by the Arabs.
"It is highly probable that but for the Arabs, modern European civilization would never
have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them, it would not have assumed
that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution."
[This message has been edited by johnd (edited June 12, 2000).]
ya.. heard about it plenty of times... u talk to an arab about future of their countries and all they will talk is of past..
many of these scientist were declared heretics by fundamentalists.. and most of these books and knowledge was destroyed by fundos who claimed that quran has everything.. so if science grew, it grew 'despite islam' not due to it.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited June 12, 2000).]
ZZ, Don't talk to me like this, you know me I am not a fundamentalist and if we had any they were not my faults either. If you want to leanr some thing seriously than open your mind take a deep breath and let those fundamentalist come out of your ass. We can't take the credits away from these muslims scientist just because we had some fundamentalist who were against these peoples and science.
Get those basterd out of your ass and we will talk, otherwise I am not going to wast my time......
many of these scientist were declared heretics by fundamentalists.. and most of these books and knowledge was destroyed by fundos who claimed that quran has everything.
ZZ, for you to know this much about history of islam you must have taken a pretty anal interest. Time you became muslim b/c you know enough about it to be held accountable by now.
looks like arabs were world leaders in science at one point.. besides what you mentioned, i think they were very good at medicine too. and like your post says, it was the precursor of western research philosophy. but i really doubt if the success of the arabs was the result of the decoding-of-the-Qur’an approach the other thread was talking about.
isnt it worth noting that non-muslims managed to reap benefits out of their advances, while their own homeland, despite hoardes of religious scholars, only lagged behind? could it really have been the result of decoding the Qur’an and hadiths? or was it freedom?
civilizations rise and fall and their contributions enjoyed by others.
Indian sub continent was also a cradle of learning at one point yet look what happened.
It would be incorrect to assume that all scientists were declared as heretics by the clergy...additionally not having a single source of religeous leadership, people could easily be supported by one group and denied by another.
this information alongwith information on other scientists, overall impact of the muslim scientific advancements at different times as well as rise and fall of the seat of learning due to outside attacks including mongols and crusades etc.
Here is the URL
salam.muslimonline.com/~azahoor
There are numerous other noted scientists for whom I did not post information. as well as descriptions of research and development in different fields being developed with each generation of scientists.
[This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited June 12, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited June 12, 2000).]
Aooeeyy Pir Sahib is angry now. ZZ it's your fault, check your head if have any hair left. I know pir can cast a spell on you that you will have Bald bachey and grand bachey. Well, that was joke other wise you shocked me by your comment. I thought you were smarter than your collegues and that was reason I responded to your query. And yeah Dr. Abdul Salam theory is also base on Quran, if you read his presentation, it's started with a Quarnic Verse.
Yeah I am agree with you on status of muslims, and that's a part of life, up today down tomorrow.
not upset at all, just wanted to share all this info with ppl.
Mr Xtreme
I am guilty of cut n paste in this case. But since this was a discussion about contributions of muslims, I got it from the source. There analysis of the demise are better than anything that I can discuss anyways and you should see the site.
It was interesting to read about the demise of the seat of learning and the invaders from 2 sides defintely were a big factor. If you read the accounts there you would see that the scholarly pursuits continued even with the invasions taking place yet the pace slowed down until its eventual demise.
civilizations rise and fall and their contributions enjoyed by others.
Indian sub continent was also a cradle of learning at one point yet look what happened.
[/quote]
true, indian subcontinent too was a center for learning.. until hindu society lapsed into orthodoxy. religion and science never really did go hand in hand. science is all about freedom, and religion is all about being tied down..
religion may not be about being tied down, when the religion supports learning it is supporting it and not suppressing it.
What we really ought to do in these discussions is to separate religion from the religeous establishment. It should come as no surprise that in every society the religeous establishment played all sorts of power games to be able to call the shots. Muslims had the same expereince.
However, if you go to the site and read, many of these scientists were not just scientists but religeous scholars as well.
Queer, You are wrong again, Islam forces you to study science. When Holy Prophet (SAW) mentioned about knowledge, he mention two kinds of knowledges, Ilam-ud-Deen and Ilam-ul-Abdaan. The first one is Religious knowledge and other one is Knowledge of bodies(science) and He (SAW) told us to seek knowledge of both types. Now, you see both kind were ordered at the same time, side by side.
[This message has been edited by johnd (edited June 12, 2000).]
i guess you are right.. i took a quick look at the site fraudiya pointed out, and surprisingly , even medical men seem to have been religious scholars. (though i;m not convinced that they tried to extract factual knowledge out of Qur'an, they followed a scientific method).
but why has there been a decline after the 14th century? why is it that today, top muslim scholars arent really great scientists? (or are they?)
you are correctin thinking that they did not try to decode quraan for answers but did research and formed a systematic and documented approach towards their pursuits.
The conditions have changed considerably. The internal demise of the ottomom empire and then the strategic breakup into smaller states was the last straw.
In teh site that I pointed you would see that intially it was threats to the state and number of atatcks e.g. the mongols that initiated changes. Later due to internal struggle and politics teh status quo as it was ceased to exist.
It is very hard to keep anything constructive going amidst chaos, power games and lack of leadership accountibility.
I am not knowledgeable enough to comment whether religeous scholars today also are active in physical sciences etc. At first glance it would seem impossible but I have read about some that are.
I would emphasize again to stop looking at the local village mullah as a religeous scholar, because in large number of cases they are misguided, uninformed and jahil for lack of a better word. Not true for all..but for a large number.
btw the demise of great cvilizations has always been of intrigue to me. whether they were in recent past.USSR for example, European colonial powers prior to that, The Otoman Empire before that and if we go further back in time, the indus civilization, romans, greeks, egyptians, babylonians…
Its unimaginable to think that any advanced civilization would not last, but in each case it was destroyed or self destructed.
It would be of immense interest to have an objective assesment of the common denominators in the downfall of each power/civilization and gauge current powers using that as a benchmark.
NY..get digging and find me a book on this subject
Queer, You are right, we might not find the theory of relativity in Quran but I sure we can find the basis of the theory, just the theory Dr. Salam proved to us, one particle and he based his research and theory on Quran. It's like a teacher, they don't solve all the question for you they can only teach you the method, it's up to you to use that method or waste it. I am always agreed on the conditions of Muslims but you can't blame Islam for that.
btw, you got the url slisha wrong - salaam. instead of www.
JohnD,
i dont blame islam for anything, sorry if it seemed that way. but i am quite skeptical about using holybooks as a source of factual knowledge (they are for spiritual guidance, if you ask me), and the kind of proofs i have seen, only reinforce my belief.. probably i can think of it as a way of helping you relax and concentrate better, and thus helping you find solutions more readily… but crossword clues?