What is the basis in Islam of freedom to choose one’s religion; one’s attire one’s way of life. How much control does an individual have over his/her freedom in Islam.
I’m not talking about culture here; I’m talking about what it says in the holy book.
For example, if one converts to Islam he/she is praised and honoured. but when a Muslim converts to another religion his punishment is death.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
Very thought-provoking question. I used to think about it a lot when I was confused being a muslim in my teenage time…
Then, one day I came across a hadeeth of the Prophet:saw: … it struck me so much so that I started telling this to everyone I used to meet.. of course, many had heard it already but I continued to base all my arguments on this hadeeth… I even memorized the Arabic words of that as well… It says, Prophet:saw: said, and he spoke only the TRUTH:
Ad Duniya Sijn Al Momin wa Jannat al Kaafir
That is, This World is a jail for a momin (Muslim with Imaan) and a paradise for the non-believer.
I realised a muslim actually does not have much of the freedom… He looks towards Allah and His prophet for the guidance all the time… Whatever he does, he finds himself in restrictions… Eat that, DO not eat that… say the Truth, avoid lying… This is halaal, this is haraam,… you can not have relations to opposite sex out of wedlock… you can not have sex with your wife while fasting.. you can not do this .. you can not do that… what a jail… !!!
And look at the one who does not believe… Freedom on top of Freedom… Maadar Pidar Aaazad… Drink Alcohol… kill anyone and no one will ask you afer you will die… it’s okay to have physical relations with opposite sex if both agrees.. what’s a marriage.. huh? heck, you can be homosexuals and enjoy life… Baabar ba Aish Kosh kaY Aalam dobarah neest…
Then, one day… I was listening to Dr. Israr Ahmed on translation, transliteration and explanation of Quran… He said something and I was shocked, yet again… he said… look around you… you will find there is no justice in this world… There are people who are deserving but do not get proper jobs and there are people who are dumb as a donkey and they are the big shots… you kill one person or you kill 1000, at the most you will get the same punishment… you will be killed only once… you do a good thing for someone and your are condemned just because someone was jealous of you… All in vain??? neah… this world is not the ultimate place of justice… there is justice but it’s not perfect… it’s very very illogical to have such a place if there is no place else where you won’t get justice… so Day of Judgement is the TRUTH…
Then, not very long ago.. In NY, I met a person from Texas who was a former christian preacher but he reverted to Islam back in 1991 and he is now a scholar of Islam living in washington D.C. Shaikh Yousuf Est`es
Later I saw one of his lectures online and in which he explained the meaning of Islam… All my life, I had been hearing the meaning… Islam is peace, Islam is surrender .. Islam is this.. Islam is that… His words put everything in perspective…
Well, what is Islam? If you ask me following:
Aslam? Tasleem? Salaam?
My answer would be: Na’am … but you may or may not know what’s that?
You see Islam is not like any other religions or isms on this earth because it is a verb besides being used as a noun..
what is a verb? an action that you do…!!!
what is the root for Islam in arabic language? SA - LA - MA => SILM
What does it mean? some say, it means peace, some say it means surrender… well it does not… it means the total combination of following 5 things:
Surrender
Submit
Obey
Sincere
Peace
It’s an action pointing to direction without mentioning to the subject..
If i tell you go! go!.. I am not moving.. I want you to leave..
If I say come…Come… I want you to come to me?? right? I do not have to say.. I WANT YOU TO COME HERE… I can only say COME…
If I say Islam!
Islam!
Islam man!
IF you do not know what Islam means then you would not know what I am telling you…
I am in fact telling u to do something..
What am I telling you?
submit… you will say ok…
Surrender.. err, okay man
obey… … oooooooOOo
sincerely. ouch man! that’s the hardest part
with peace… hmmmm
Islam means… to surrender, submit yourself sincerely with peace in obidience of pointing to the direction of Allah:swt:.. Not to me, Not to any govt., not to any nation, not to any ‘ism’ etc… to do what?
Do you agree that human being should not make his/her own religion and tell God to accept it?
Do you agree that if God shows you some way to take then you should take that way than some man-made system?
Do u agree human being human being should agree to surrender, submit, and obey to his Lord in His terms with sincerity and in peace…??? If you do, then guess what? you are already accepting Islam.
This is Islam.
So, my brother… The meaning of Freedom in Islam is not the Freedom that frees you being a human being altogether… Allah:swt: has created some laws… if we believe that physical laws created by Allah:swt: are absolute then we should also acknolwedge that human laws created by Allah:swt: are also absolute and that are worthy of any questioning…
Wama Alaina Illal Balaagh!
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
AQ thank you for your post. but do you have anything from the holy book other then a hadith.
many thanks.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
Good Job AQ
Very well-said
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
Dani: In fact, my last line was from Quran:
**[88:21] “And so exhort them; your task is only to exhort;” - this was initially addressed to the Prophet:saw: **
**
**
the next ayah tells us
**[88:22] “you cannot compel” **
*Allah:swt: tells us in Quran *
[10:99] “And had your Lord so willed, all those who live on earth would have attained to faith - all of them, do you then think that you could compel people to believe?”
A very famous that everyone loves to quote:
*[2:256] “There shall be no coercion in matters of faith” *
Now, this is specifically for thos non-believers who never accepted Islam…
whereas, the example that you mentioned was of those who are termed as “MURTID” .. those who were muslim and then they disbelieved… In Quran, Allah:swt: has kept the punishment for such same as what was in Torah and He mentioned that story when Bani Israel had made the golden calf to worship… Allah:swt: had ordered Bani Israel to kill among each others who did not come back to the imaan after they had disbelieved… Again.. it is very consistent to the explanation I tried to give above…
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
Thank you.
So if someone finds something wrong in islam and converts to another religion should be killed,
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
danial shah, there is no solid proof that the mandatory state punishment for someone that leaves Islam is death. In fact, if the Quran clearly states, as AQ posted, that force cannot be used to make someone follow Islam, then you can't kill someone when they choose to not believe Islam. Its that simple. However, if the person betrays the Islamic state - ex. treason - then the state punishment would be death. I think somehow that's gotten mixed up and the idea that anyone who converts out of Islam needs to be killed has gotten propogated.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
PCG is right in one sense… Islam as a whole came as the religion of State and anyone who used to become murtid was considered to have committed treason as he/she is a potential danger to the state… but that sounds too shallow if we do not understand the reality behind it…
Keep in mind that, Islamic Punishments CAN NOT be executed by any one other than through Islamic Judiciary System of the Government… This is why, it is wrong in any country of the world, even in Pakistan, to kill a murtid… It is absolutly UNISLAMIC for a muslim to carry out islamic punishments on his own… There is no TRUE Islamic Govt. out there these days and that’s what the basis of Khilafah is 
As an example, everyone know that the punishment of a thief is to cut the hands but very few know that there are six conditions along with that… Syedana Umer:razi: had abloshed this punishment for a time period when there was a drought in Madinah…
Having said that, there is a very big big article of Shaikh Yousuf Es`tes who I mentioned in my first post… please, read it … may it bring guidance to all of us..
http://www.islamalways.com/en/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=105
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
I don't think anyone who rejects Islam is immediately supposed to be considered as having committed treason. Otherwise, the Prophet (SAW) would have encouraged killing people if despite persuasion, chose not to convert to Islam. And keep in mind, that even though we're all considered innocent until puberty, at which point we are responsible for our religious choices (rather than our parents' being responsible), a person hitting puberty is essentially no different from the non-muslim choosing whether to believe or not believe.
By treason, I mean the individual has committed an act of ACTUAL treason, and not potential treason. I don't think Islam encourages punishments for potential crimes that haven't taken place.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
^ no .. absolutely not... there is a whole procedure of asking the person to come back in Islam... and it is mentioned in the traditions of the Prophet and the Rightly Guided Caliphs that usually it was to ask the person three times and the reason as to why he disbelieved...
I think, you should read the article I posted.. it will answer you many things that you are raising here or asking us..
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
My 2 cents:
The laws pertaining to apostates is so intertwined with the conflict and ongoing war the Prophet (pbu) had with the pagans, that it's nigh impossible to seperate treason from apostacy.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
well i read on wikipedia article on Javed Ahmed Ghamdi that he believes that this order to kill the Murtid's was time bound for that period of turmoil. Any of his student if can please explain how he drew the conclusion as the concluion makes sense but we cannot believe everything which makes sense to us (because only that thing makes sense to you which you like)
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
agreed.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
the punishment of apostasy is most certainly NOT death. If that was the case then it could be argued that islam promotes hypocracy. If a person is born into a muslim family and later on he/she decides to convert to another religion because he/she doesn't see any truth in this religion, they should be allowed to do so. If the punishment for their conversion was death, and they choose to remain a muslim because of a fear for their life, then we have created a hypocrate among ourselves. We have a person who doesn't believe islam to be true but is made to say so by the state. Now a fat lot of good it would do to the muslim ummah to keep such a person.
[4:138]T*hose who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.*
now if the punishment of apostasy was death, there would be no question for the apostates to disbelief again and again. Also note that Allah has kept their punishment in his own hand too.
The apostates who were punished during Hazrat Abu Bakr's time were not punished because they disbelieved in islam. Rather they were commiting treason by plotting and raising armies against the muslim state and as head of the muslim state he had to punish them.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
The laws pertaining to apostates is so intertwined with the conflict and ongoing war the Prophet (pbu) had with the pagans, that it's nigh impossible to seperate treason from apostacy.
agreed.
AQ - what is the history behind those situations? Were those people involved in war and fighting and political treasons and spying, etc? Or were they just your random joe shmoe that decided to convert to Islam, then changed their mind, and left it? I think the situations I've read about sounded more like treason.
Re: Islam and freedom of choice
[4:138]T*hose who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.*
now if the punishment of apostasy was death, there would be no question for the apostates to disbelief again and again.
yeah that's what I understood from it. That if you keep wavering, and then heading more towards disbelief, then basically, you really are disbelieving. Otherwise you'd believe. And the punishment for that comes straight from God, not from anywhere else. Or else this ayah would come with a command that would tell believers to kill such a person.