Re: Islaamic isolation?
Where was this? i dont think this bs of urs is really gona float the boat cuz apparently no mosque that i no or ever heard has asked anyone to leave … unless dressed inappropriately for a religious place.. and no one really stands on the door and checks if ur “Husband” is coming in with you… so this whole “conditionally” bs… take it somewhere else
Re: Islaamic isolation?
I second that, but with less harshness…
Re: Islaamic isolation?
That could have been a reason, once a convert friend of mines mother came to the mosque and she was really stubborn and didn’t want to respect the Islamic dress code, she insisted it was her choice if she didn’t want to cover her legs and head, the Molvi asked her politely to leave and she waited in the car.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
You live in the US?
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Why not recommend kicking the idiots ass who asked her to leave? Why sud decent ppl hv to move rather than those idiots who practice a narrow minded, misogynistic faith? And why r u acting confused, this happens all the time in North America.
Lets not protect those who deserve to be chastized and kicked on their big fat bigoted asses. They choose to live in Western cultures yet do not have the slightest resspect of their host values and traditions. What service are they doing to Islam? Hypocrites.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Few points need to be stated:
So where does this demarcated area forbidding others of entry come from?
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Oh man.
I am a practicing Catholic, we cover as much as a Muslim with the exception of a hijab. Correct dress wasn't the problem, I was shocked at the number of tight jeans I saw. Don't you think my husband would have stopped me if he thought I would embarass him? He has the right to tell me if what I am wearing is inappropriate. I had a floor length loose light tan skirt and a long loose top that covered me to my wrists.
As far as area, I am in the very southwest of Philadelphia.
Trust me, if my husband or children had not been there, I would have been turned away. Even if it was what I was wearing, something I said, something I did, someone (in that case) should have been nice enough to point it out and explained.
[QUOTE]
Why not recommend kicking the idiots ass who asked her to leave? Why sud decent ppl hv to move rather than those idiots who practice a narrow minded, misogynistic faith? And why r u acting confused, this happens all the time in North America.
Lets not protect those who deserve to be chastized and kicked on their big fat bigoted asses. They choose to live in Western cultures yet do not have the slightest resspect of their host values and traditions. What service are they doing to Islam? Hypocrites.
[/QUOTE]
Preach on, brother. I was wondering why people were questioning me about my behavior. I was there with my husband and kids, I would never, ever make them ashamed.
VERY off topic - there was a girl there (she was about 16-17) who was wearing the black skirt and black top most Muslims wear here with a hijab and she was standing with her mother who was dressed very nicely in a tan outfit. I stared at her for a bit because she had on bright red skin tight jeans and a bright red t-shirt under her clothes. Do you want to know how I know what she was wearing? Her skirt and top both had tears/cuts (like from scissors) from th hem of the skirt to just below the waist line every inch all the way around the skirt and the top the same thing only ending right below her bust. So it looked as though her clothes were shredded. And she was there to worship.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
^^
In 25 years in Pak, never seen women welcome in any mosque. It just doesn't happen. Dunno if it is cultural thing or any other.
That sexy gal in mosque was probably beaten to death to get her ass in mosque. This is how pak families behave with their children in non-muslim lands....more protective....By 18 or 22, there is more likelihood she would be getting an abortion on her parents expense, and move in her bf with her.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Lostsoul - she wasn't Paki, she was African-American. I think it was a fashion statement more than anything, definitely very inappriopriate (well, I think, it would be in a Catholic Church). Her mother didn't see anything wrong with it. Oh well.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
minah ignore the morons, during the time of the Prophet :saw: Christian priests visited him for a religious debate and he even allowed them to pray their own prayers in his mosque (the second most sacredest place on earth for muslims) facing their own qiblah (direction), thse mullahs nowadays are usually ignorant dogs more interested in their green card or red brit passport and a steady salary than they are about religion and religious laws.
I’ve seen girls dressed inappropriately too, even mullahs daughters, I’m not the most practicing of people myself when it comes to dress code but if I have to enter a place of worship regardless of whther it’s of my own faith or somebpody elses i respect the rules.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
mosques usually in toronto are so diverse.. no one has any problem visiting it, mainly because if u r dressed appropriately, no one would know if u r muslim or not. i've seen ppl from all around the world, different colours n races. everyone just blends in.
this isolation stuff must be an american thing :D
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Suroor - without kidding, I really think so too and I believe that may also be part of the problem as far as people’s perceptions of Muslims and Islam in general here in US as unwelcoming and judgemental. I am not basing that on this one incident, I had this thought prior to this experience, but this certainly reinforced it.
Ranjhan - I don’t take it personally, I know this is not the norm. One on one, the Muslims I have met are very welcoming people. It was just this particular Mosque maybe.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Here's what I received from islamtoday.com
[quote]
Assalamo alaykum, Myself and other individuals have been wondering the sound reasoning behind preventing the non-Muslims from entering Mecca and Madina. If you can, please do shed some light on it, so that we can better understand the purpose behind it, insha'Allah. Also, in Toronto, mosques hold open houses and welcome non-Muslims to the masjid in an effort to enlighten them about Islam. So granted that it is permitted for non-Muslims to enter other mosques, what is the reason behind prohibiting them from entering Mecca and Madina.
Answered by: Sheikh Sâmî al-Mâjid
Allah forbade non-Muslims from entering Mecca and Madînah. Allah says: “O ye who believe, truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred mosque” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 28].
There is no difference about the non-Muslims in this case whether they were Jews, Christians, Hindus or something else. Allah forbade them from entering those places for their abstract impurity, for saying there are partners with Allah, and believing religiously in falsehood.
This is something special for the sacred precincts of Mecca and Madînah only. However, they are allowed to live in the area of the Arabian Peninsula surrounding the sacred precincts themselves on a temporarily basis.
This is in no way injurious to the Jews and Christians, as they have nothing to do in these quite small, restricted places. These are sacred places for Muslims and have their significant and honored position.
And Allah knows best.
[/quote]
Re: Islaamic isolation?
^ that's just the surat i quoted but fartguru has a problem excepting the ruling!
allah-o-akbar.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Rules are rules what is so difficult to understand on guppshup you not allowed to swear in mecca no jews or xstains allowed simple.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
ak47 - understood, be a good lil doobie, right?
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Every jew and christian is allowed once the Al-e-Sauds monarchy is in danger
Re: Islaamic isolation?
[quote]
Allah forbade non-Muslims from entering Mecca and Madînah. Allah says: “O ye who believe, truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred mosque” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 28].
There is no difference about the non-Muslims in this case whether they were Jews, Christians, Hindus or something else. Allah forbade them from entering those places for their abstract impurity, for saying there are partners with Allah, and believing religiously in falsehood.
This is something special for the sacred precincts of Mecca and Madînah only. However, they are allowed to live in the area of the Arabian Peninsula surrounding the sacred precincts themselves on a temporarily basis.
This is in no way injurious to the Jews and Christians, as they have nothing to do in these quite small, restricted places. These are sacred places for Muslims and have their significant and honored position.
[/quote]
One things is left unclear. It's extremely clear from this Fatwa that non-Muslims are not allowed in the Mosques in those cities. But what is the defined area around the Mosque that they are not allowed to enter? Obviously, Mecca and Medina have both grown enormousely in the past 1400 years, so it is really the case that where 1000 years ago, a non-Muslim could be 2km away from the Mosque and not be in Mecca, whereas now if he is 2km away from the Mosque he would actually be in the city of Mecca - and thus not allowed...
I guess what I'm asking is does the area forbidden to non-Muslims vary over time as a function of the size of the cities of Mecca and Medina, since as time goes past the cities take up more and more space.
Re: Islaamic isolation?
as i understand it, "pagans" are worshippers of multiple gods ie., god of water, god of fire, god of wind etc.
"Children of the book" are people who beleive in the one God/Allah. So while pagans may be banned from the holy sites due to such extreme difference in beleifs, children of the book have more similarities than differences. So if the actual Islaamic rule is to ban PAGANS from Mecca, then it follows that christians and jews should NOT be banned na?
Please, dont get all riled and angry here folks, this is a respectful quest for knowledge....and in no way am I suggesting balloons and popcorn at Mecca.....rather, a way to educate and inspire the "children of the book" who dont have an understanding of your religion. It would be lovely for me to be able to see with my family. I have nothing but the utmost respect. And I'd completely understand keeping non-Muslims away during the Haaj if Eid but maybe at other times, its something for everyone to see?
Re: Islaamic isolation?
Ibn Hajr (d. 852H) wrote in Fath al Bari (a commentary on Sahih al Bukhari)...
"The Hanafis permit without exception [mushriks to enter jazira al arab] except for Masjid [al Haram], and from [Imam] Malik we have the permissibility of them entering [even the] Haram for trading and al Shafi'i said the rule is that they are not allowed to enter the Haram except by permission of the Imam if there is a specific benefit to the Muslims."