Your original question is *“ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. How to prove this to someone who thinks otherwise?”
*I am assuming that your question is non-rhetorical and you are sincere about proving the above. As a non-Muslim, I am telling you what prevents non-Muslims from believing that ISIS is not equal to Islam. I don’t think many Muslims will be able to give you a non-Muslim perspective. No need to get all defensive on me.
What would convince you otherwise? I think its important for muslims and non-muslims to find a common ground, so we can find a solution where the common muslim does not feel being held accountable for the actions of extremists.
I don’t sit on the ultimate truth, but here are my two cents. Religion in this instance is just a tool, being used to control and manipulate the zealots. Zealotry comes in many forms, ethnic, national, religious etc.
Which is why I would advocate a mellowed approach to once ethnicity, nationality and religion. Fanatic approach creates zealots, who are prone to manipulation.
There must be room for other defining factors too.
I don’t know know, and neither is that relevant here. My statement was not intended to be judgemental - all I said was “*As to your other question, the OP had asked how Muslims can prove that ISIS = Islam hence the discussion. You don’t want to condemn ISIS or terrorism, thats your choice.”
This is an academic discussion, and all my statement means is that I am not going to prescribe what you should or should not do. If you don’t want to do something thats your choice.
My condemnation of Israel means zilch since I am neither an Israeli citizen nor Jewish. I am happy to discuss Israel with you in a separate thread, instead of derailing this one.
Errr…India had Muslim much before the West even knew about the religion. Indians don’t need to ride on the West’s tail coats for anything. India has 180 million Muslims, and despite all help from our neighbors there hasnt been any Islamophobia in India.
Sorry, I got sucked into this rhetorical discussion. When I read the opening post, I figured a non-Muslim’s perspective might be helpful here since wasn’t the original idea to convince non-Muslims of something that they did not believe. Little did I know that this was another attempt at playing victim.
Growing up in areas with heavy Muslim population, I know that ISIS does not equal Islam. However, having lived in the USA for a long time I also have insight into how a non-Muslim with little/no exposure to Muslims might think so I am just playing devil’s advocate here.
I absolutely agree with the point you have raised (in bold) :k: Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion.
Why are you wasting your time with racists? If someone believes that ISIL represents Islam in any way shape or form, they are too illiterate and jahil to begin with. So why bother hitting your head against a stonewall?
I see your dilemma … It’s a good job the vast majority of the Muslims like 99.9% don’t share it with you. Also … qualification is not what I meant when I said license … I meant express ijaza - which is permission given by a scholar who himself was given permission - this process ensures the correct views are transmitted - not MAs and PhDs I’m afraid to say … which are secular qualifications and do not really account for Islamic license - they may represent a level of knowledge - but not necessarily wisdom or correct understanding of that knowledge.
I think you are expecting too much from him … Can Jack Sparrow think beyond what the media want him to think? Alas most people are stuck in this mode of thought … they will just spill out exactly what the media has been spewing out … and they are unable to think objectively about it.
Missy … I think it’s fresh that he wants to call ISIS a legitimate voice of Islam but at the same time wants Muslims to condemn them … That is absurd … If they i.e. the greater world want us to accept ISIS as a legitimate voice of Islam then they should also promote them too and not ask us to condemn them …
We need a decision tree for this. If the person is non-Muslim, and convinced they are, then nuts to them. No further effort should be required, we should NOT do the public penance thing.
The more important target are those Muslims who are on the fence or supportive of ISIS. We have a rich history dealing with such types, (Khawarji), not to mention that central tenant to ISIS belief, that Qayamat can be brought about by acting out prophecy, falls flat with predestination.
No. If terrorism is a reaction to another’s aggression, then the line of retort, rather than pathetic blanket apologetic, is most appropriate.
To suggest all conflicts are the same is just willful ignorance. To suggest all that is happening in the middle east right now comes out of the vacuum of theology is worse.
There is a big difference between “nothing to do with” and “not representative of majority” or “radicalized/perverted version of”.
By saying the former, you come across as disingenuous and defensive, all the more so to those who know just the bullet-point version of islam - hijabs and beards, shariah, caliphate etc etc. These all pretty much line up with what is seen about ISIS.
The other thing is, everytime something cruel is done by ISIS or other terrorists, a bunch of muslims all go - no muslim could have done that. Again, comes across all wrong - everything from sounding morally superior to non muslims, to denial of the fact that Islam is (ab)used to do atrocities in its name.
One thing is for sure - there is a serious lack of intelligent PR for muslims at pretty much every level. The political leaders are spineless and corrupt, or too religious to be useful in any practical way.
Easy there man. Please don’t use the P word. PR comes from being pragmatic. Being pragmatic comes from being practical and work with things even though you may not agree with for the greater benefit. That’s like anti-Islamic thought..we do things the Quran/Hadees way where everything is perfect and must be done as prescribed and there are no two ways about it. You think we’ll work with inferior methods?
There is some sense in that post queer … You know we are saying it true … There really is nothing like ISIS in Islam … Are we being defensive? Well we could well be or we are not … The issue is our denial of association with them should be a strong sign that we are denouncing them … Yet we are also blamed for not denouncing them … If you want us to denounce then let us say ISIS are nothing to do with us or Islam … Because as much as we hate their ideology we love Islam … But it seems others want us to denounce Islam because of ISIS.
I don’t know know, and neither is that relevant here. My statement was not intended to be judgemental - all I said was “*As to your other question, the OP had asked how Muslims can prove that ISIS = Islam hence the discussion. You don’t want to condemn ISIS or terrorism, thats your choice.”
… It’s a good job the vast majority of the Muslims like 99.9% don’t share it with you. Also … qualification is not what I meant when I said license … I meant express ijaza - which is permission given by a scholar who himself was given permission - this process ensures the correct views are transmitted - not MAs and PhDs I’m afraid to say … which are secular qualifications and do not really account for Islamic license - they may represent a level of knowledge - but not necessarily wisdom or correct understanding of that knowledge.