Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Thats quite a ridiculous statement and am sure your friend made it up. If Pakistanis were so concerned about their after life Pakistan would not have been in top 10 corrupt list for decade. From top to bottom, corruption is a way of life.

22

The incidence I quoted is based on conversation. I can not back it up with any reference. So everyone is free to disbelief it.
But I can't call my friend a liar, because he is not.

Corruption and more importance given to after-life are not much related. One could be a big corrupt while being a very religious person.
There are various reasons people give for doing corruption. I am sure you must have come across some of those reasons. For example, "I am doing it for future of my children". "Government itself is corrupt and does not care about people, then why should I not do it too"? "I take bribes only from industrialists, not from ordinary people".
People can give justifications even for killing civilians. There is justification for everything, including corruption. And in every justification there is a hope of God forgiving bad but "unavoidable" actions from us.

23

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

I would again like to say that it is not Islam that is the problem. It is our religious leaders, and their wrong priorities which is at the heart of the problem. It is the ignorance of these leaders which drags people towards backwardness.
So Pakistan needs to take time-out from these leaders, and develop and educate itself. In other words, we need to raise education of our religious leaders beyond religious studies. Only then they can become competent and be able to make enlightened decisions.

Otherwise Talibanic fanatics will continue to own Islam.

24

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

CM:

[quote]
Wait Malaysia not religious? ...
if you think Turkey is not a very Islamic country go visit it outside of Ankara and Istanbul.
[/quote]

There is no problem people following religion on personal level. Problem arises when they start imposing their views on general population. This does not happen in Malaysia and Turkey.

This is why I called them not-so-religious.

25

Now you are bending and twisting to make ends meet...

26

How come?
I never said that Islam is the problem. It is our attitude of looking everything from religious eyes of madressah-teachers that is the problem.

Marx wanted to abolish religion. He called religion "opium of the masses". I wouldn't want to abolish religion, of course. But I sort of agree with him that religion CAN be used to opiate the masses. Like in Pakistan.

It is unfortunate that our people have confined religion to some rituals and segregation of sexes alone. Islam is a lot more than just that. Islam's purpose was to liberate and develop people. Thus things like good governance, education, democracy, human rights, discipline, honesty; are as much Islamic as namaz and roza.
But how many times have we heard these words in sermons in mosques?

There is one tablighi jama'at whose only purpose is to make people perform namaz on time. That's what they talk all the time. I have not heard any tablighi talking about education or doing our daily jobs with full honesty. Never.

27

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

A SHORT STORY:

I had a supervisor who had a ye-lammmbi (very long) beard. He kept his pants above his ankles. He never missed his prayers. Always preached religion to everyone. He worked in Saudi Arabia for a while. He named his son "Abd Allah".
In short, he was truly a religious Islamic person.

But guess what, his dealings as a manager were in no way different from anyone else. He used to play all dirty tricks in the business meetings, like lying on face or hurling blames and excuses.

So what good was his religion to Pakistani society? None.

Again. It was not Islam that was the problem. He just did not think honesty and truthfulness to be fundamentally Islamic principles.

There are businesses/ industries in Pakistan, and there are respective business/ industries in other countries like US, India, Japan, China, etc. Our people as a percentage are much more religious (think my supervisor) than any of these countries. If emphasis we give to religion really has been of any help to us then the way Pakistani people conduct their business and daily activities, must be better than other countries.
But we actually see the opposite.
There is no professionalism in Pakistani people. They will lie and cheat, be dishonest in their jobs, come late and leave early ... regardless of their strong religious beliefs.

The kind of emphasis we give to religion presently in our mosques has not helped us in anyway achieving prominence in the world. If anything it is bringing us down to the level of cave-life.

28

i think u r gettin a lil confused here.. there's a difference b/w practicing islamic laws (which happens in malaysia as u mentioned) and just talking about it (which happens in pakistan)...for countries like turkey or malaysia, the ppl might be religious but they don't force it on other ppl like what paki clergymen try to do.. religion should be kept to oneself.. instead, we talk about it everywhere and to everyone. that only wastes everyone's time..

29

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

one more thing, it just isn't religion that is kepping our nation behind.. it's things like choudhary, wadera, and saradr system.. this is where we could really use religion as a means to break the power of powerful landlords who treat other ppl like their slaves n don't let them get any education or awareness.. also, there's a lot of ethinc tensions in pakistan.. happens all the tume in karachi.. in short, only and only PROPER education of the younger generations can save our sinking ship..

30

I understand your frustration with the zamindars etc, but religion shouldn't be "used" to do anything like that. Religion being "used" for (whatever) political purpose is the problem in Pakistan.

31

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

Religion has nothing to do with forcing ones faith on others. That is just retarded. So in reality what you lot are saying is "The abuse by some quarters of the religious clergy of Islam has been used to gain political ground".

Very different from the title and what you lot originally stated. Change the subject and the discussion in that case.

32

i meant used as in the same sense as we use knowledge when we need it.. and besides, i don't see anything wrong wid applying religious laws in such cases.. it's for the gud.. also, how's breaking the power of cruel zamindars a political thing.. i come across news like "chaudhary chained peasant and beat him up" everyday.. that's social injustice and islamic laws (or other laws for that matter) provide solutions for such injustices..

33

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

Yesterday I quoted Marx very (very very) famous statement about religion being opium of the masses. Later I thought about it and realized that I was thinking in the same line when I started this thread.
Marx must have seen the same thing in his times. People devoted so much to rituals and rites of their religion that they not bothering to do something to improve their miserable conditions. This is what was being referred to in the first post of this thread.

But while Marx wanted to abolish religion to liberate people, I wish to see Islam itself being used to liberate people and wake them up from their slumber.
Masjid historically has not been just a place of worship. Rather it has been used as an educational and cultural center. Think 'ashab e suffa', for example. But today in Pak, madressah's/ masjid's only purpose is to inculcate religious doctrines in the minds of people (opiate them), with no attention whatsoever to the modern scientific/ technical education.

34

*Very sad how people think it is Islam which is hindering Pakistan. *

Islam promotes education, womens rights, progression ad so much more.

*It is so-called secular, democratic, military dictators who have ruled Pakistan far the 62 years who have kept it back. *

*The people in power are the ones who keep Pakistani people back and deprive them of their rights. They know if the masses learned their rights they would be out of power. *

35

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

Islam has not promoted women's rights in a 1000 years.

36

Re: Is too much attention to Islam hindering development in Pak?

Must keep religion and constitution/governance of the state etc. separate. It is no surprise then that Pakistan is deemed the 5th most unstable country in the world, largely because of our confused and messed up priorities

This is with reference to the news item “Pakistan ranked fifth most unstable country”, (June 10). The Global Peace Index (GPI) released by the US Department of State termed Pakistan as the world’s fifth most unstable country, better only than Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan. Pakistan’s ranking according to the GPI is 145 on a list of 149 countries. Internal conflicts, the deteriorating law and order situation, bad governance, suicide bombings and large-scale violence in different regions of Pakistan deepened its state of instability and vulnerability to a total breakdown of state apparatus.

One can question the credibility and merit of the index released by the US State Department’s GPI, but two things tend to augment the level of alarm and caution as far as Pakistan’s prevailing security, economic, socio-political conditions are concerned.

First, instability in Pakistan has reached a dangerous level because two out of four provinces (Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa), including the tribal areas, are in the grip of insurgency, militancy, violence and terrorism.

The other two provinces, Sindh and Punjab, are also exposed to acts of terror and breakdown of the rule of law. Second, the human security index in Pakistan has also reached its lowest ebb in view of rampant corruption, deepening of economic divide, the low quality of life and the breakdown of infrastructure.

The state’s failure to control prices of essential commodities and to provide good governance also enhances the level of frustration and anger in the vast segments of population.

It is not only the GPI which has warned of serious threats of instability in Pakistan because of the reasons mentioned earlier, other global organisations like Transparency International and the International Crisis Group have also expressed their concern over the collapse of state institutions.

It is high time that those who are the stakeholders in the state and society of Pakistan, regardless of their political affiliation, take notice of the chaotic situation in the country and take appropriate steps so that the country is saved from a tragedy. Unfortunately, in the last four or so decades, Pakistan has gone back in terms of development, education, rule of law and work ethics.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/letters-to-the-editor/pakistan-as-the-fifth-most-unstable-country-360

37

Very sad, indeed. But if we have a problem then we need to fix it, instead of playing ostrich.

38

Fortunately, not alot of people resort to altaf bhai's brainfarts so you need not be sad my friend.

People have every right to practice or be obsessive about their religion in a free country. The state has no right to impose their views, including their enlightened moderation BS like the previous regime tried to do.

39

There is small number of people who want Pakistan to be a 'Islamic Caliphate', just look how big a support Islamic political parties get and how much other parties get support during elections that I believe is a good enough indicator of how "Islamism" is affecting Pakistan's progress. Its not possible to ask everyone to think along only one line, let everybody think and do what they can as long as it is towards Pakistan's interests but nothing wrong/abusive towards fellow Pakistanis whether its in name of religion or ethnicity.

The success has come only in last few decades, where was this success 200 years ago? I don't think they abandoned religion only in last few decades from govt.

How many people are actually jamming religion everyone's throat? You are hanging out with wrong people or reading wrong media.

40

I think lack of attention to islam is hindering the development in Pakistan. but fear not a golden future awaits us.

Ki Muhammad(PBUH) se wafa tu ney, tu hum tarey hain..
yeh jaha cheeze hai kiyea, yea Loh-o-Qalum tarey hain

Sabak phir perh sadakat ka, adalat ka, shujaat ka…
Liya jaye ga tujh sey kaam duniya ki imamat ka

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/notes/syed-zaid-zaman-hamid-official/video-zaid-hamid-at-ucp-lahore/413757153896

Lol.. Islam introduced womens right in the world 1500 years ago. Muslims (alleged) not following islam; may make statements like what you have made because of lack of knowlege.

And they (women) have rights (over their husbands…) similar (to those of their husbands) over them, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them…” [al-Baqarah:228].

Ibn ‘Abbaas said concerning this aayah: “It is their (women’s) right to good companionship and proper treatment on the part of their husbands, and their duty to obey and do what their husbands tell them to do.”
Ibn Zayd said: **“Fear Allaah with regard to them (wives) just as they should fear Allaah with regard to you.”
**

**“and live with them honorably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allaah brings through it a great deal of good” [al-Nisa’:19] **

Allaah says in a Hadeeth Qudsi: “O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.” (Muslim)