Is this decent?

(Sorry, no pics here)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

You folks wanted a debate, so you can have a debate (no personal attacks please). We just want frank, clear, honest personal opinions from you folks..

So…

What is decent? What is acceptable decency standards for public morality? What is the acceptable decency level for this discussion board? Should we only allow Pakistani culture to be represented here or anything interesting (and decent)? What if Pakistani culture is not according to Islamic values… should that be censored too?


For the sake of this discussion… please note that the PRESENT stated policy for Image Gallery for decency is as follows:

  1. No pornographic, immoral or gory pictures are allowed. We hope to implement a standard which reflects those implemented by reputed national publications in Pakistan. This means, for instance, that you are free to post the pictures of the movie stars of your dreams, but the picture should not be vulgar or immodest. And yes, this applies to pictures of both males and females…**

This policy is presently consistently applied. And due to this policy, some threads were brought back regardless of what someone’s personal views are about the pics.

So, let your views be known now, or else don’t complain later..ok

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Good effort, Pristine.

Just want to have something cleared up. Do you intend to discuss standards of morality/decency etc specific to Image gallary or gupshup as a whole? Reason I asked because at one point you used "this discussion board" and then outlined policy specific to image gallary.

Good point Roman...

Right now, I am more concerned with visual images and the decency standard expected by the members. So, opinions specific to Image Gallery are required.

hmmm...so far I think both Mr. Fraudia and you, Pristine, have done an excellent job. I think the image gallery, as it stands now, is pretty decent. No complaints from me...yet.

I think if it's good enough for the magazines they publish in pakistan... I have no problem with it. I mean gimme a break! I have yet to see anything to complain about here in the image gallery.

Hmmm.. I would say anything which you can’t share with your 12 yr old.. shouldn’t be on this site.. Also.. There is something known as clean fun… you can laugh all you want and have all the fun you want without making it indecent…
Pristine.. you are a pretty reasonable person.. Just think of it as.. the things which you can share with your family and your family members can share with you..

Also.. there have been quite a few indecent posts in the Image Gallery.. I understand kay a mod has only so much time and he can’t keep a constant lookout… so why not have 3 or 4 mods…

And please will everyone else who has been complaining in other threads, post their views in this thread too..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif


**.~{ To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing }~. **

I'd have to say I partly agree with Ammar, you do get l'il kids here as well, but then again these kids have access to such pics in their everyday lives as well. There's a very fine line between what's 'decent' and what isn't. Pics of models are fine, but then there are pics and there are sexy pics, and it must be difficult to decide what is suitable and what isn't and also to live upto those standards which you set. It's a tough job you have there Pristine and it's hard to set standards, like you said, is it going to be according to Pakistani culture or Islam? hmmm...I'll get back to this one when I come to a conclusion, if I come to a conclusion. But I must say, when I saw those 'specific' Vaneeza pics, I did get a l'il shocker but some ppl were totally fine with them. Maybe I'm being a bit naive but if we were to see a white or Indian girl in those same clothes we wouldn't be hoo-haa-ing so much. Oh, I'm so confused! Pristine, I wish you all the best and whatever you do, I'm sure you'll make the right decisions.

Oh, and another thing. Recently, I've seen images being put up which I don't think should be allowed if that pic that I had put up was not allowed. An example would be the 'candy store' one. All I'm saying is that you should carry out your policies uniformly. I'm saying this in pure honesty, I don't want to offend u Pristine ji! I know it's a tough job!

What is decent?
Is it safe to assume that we all know what is decent....If not then there is no one answer to this question..

What is acceptable decency standards for public morality?
There are no standards...it varies with individuals and to me decent is not invading other's privacy or putting them down.

*What is the acceptable decency level for this discussion board? *
Like it says in ur post...No pornographic, immoral or gory pictures are allowed...I think it is very clear....I agree one can't make everyone happy....I think moderators need to be consistent. This section should potray real life and what goes on out there. Some people felt uncomfortable with half naked vinny's pictures...I think they should wake up and smell the coffee.

*Should we only allow Pakistani culture to be represented here or anything interesting (and decent)? *
To me Pakistani culture is a blend of different cultures with touches of its own unique traditions... it is still evolving with time...Any resistance would be conservative and futile.

What if Pakistani culture is not according to Islamic values... should that be censored too?
There is no 'what if' here....Pak culture is supposed to be according to Islamic values but its not! period. I think thats where the difference of opinions and such questions like what is decent arise.

Good post Pristine. I think other moderators should be asking similar questions and get a feed back to make gupshup an even better place.

ciao
BoSS

Pristine....I would strongly suggest you take care of this "the game" guy.

Just read his posts.......using xtreme vulagarity....he is spoiling the healthy enviroment of this palce.
One should always keep in mind that people of all ages visit gupshup. From grandpas and grandmas to twelve yearolds.
Pristine.."being the voice of reason" I hope u will take this matter seroiously....and I hope the admins will take care of "the game"


/* ^You mess wid me....I mess wid U^- AlCapone *\

i assume that alcapone is really jealous of me.why r u so p*ssed off at my comments?do i irritate u?do u feel inferior or something?why dont u change ur nickname thats pretty indecent to me.al capone was just a lousy gangster boy whose ass was kicked by the police n he died.we dont wanna spread gangs in this "healthy" environment.

yar Alcapone and the game, if you guys have a bone to pick, take it to some other thread or forum (I suggest doing it in NYAhamdi's forum - fights are a big part of our culture and society, and very enjoyable on times, specially when accompanied by our cultural slangs and my guess is he'll let you use some cool choice words) but don't flunk this particular thread, cut Pristine some slack, will ya?

Back to the topic, I agree with BoSS that keep in mind what's happening in real life. Yes there are young people who come here but there are quite few regular older members as well. These kids watch The Simpsons, or the Street banner ads (man, that was some ad) so you can't cater to everybody's needs, and you can't sepecially implement your own standards of morality (Pristine bhaiya, agar hum tum par raheiN to tum to humeiN raat din hadeeseiN hi sunatay raho) so keep in mind what these people are used to watching. Since this is related to image gallary, you can even sorta get the idea by different media content and ratings like G, PG, PG-13 blah, blah...

And again, this is a site by an expat Pakistani, physically located in US, and mainly used by expat Pakistanis. What kinda standards they have in Pakistan, personally, I don't give a damn.

[quote]
Originally posted by Roman:
And again, this is a site by an expat Pakistani, physically located in US, and mainly used by expat Pakistanis. What kinda standards they have in Pakistan, personally, I don't give a damn.
[/quote]

But then again one cannot ignore the fact that regardless of where we live, the name of Pakistan is attached to us. We are representing it to the whole world. The standards they have in Pakistan, are the essence of what we are representing...just perhaps a bit broadened.

Thanks to those who responded. I am waiting for more responses...

Please, I need CLEAR, HONEST, PERSONAL opinions. Don't worry abt being diplomatic. Just give us your gut feelings.

hk, where art thou?

We have had this debate in General forum a few times. Trust me, it is difficult to agree on what is Pakistani culture.

Plus, in this forum, people have been posting Hollywood and bollywood stars pics. There is no restriction on those. These models/actors/actresses do not have to wear Pakistani clothes. The pics just have to be decent, right?

So, we have, infact, one set of standards for non-Pakistani actresses (they can wear jeans/skirts etc). And we have another set of standards for Pakistani-passport holders (no naval showing please!). And, by the way, both these pics will be viewed by our youngsters (12 yr old)… Now, we have a problem… don’t you agree?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Are we restricting the purpose of this forum..

Sexist Jokes

And folks, add to this discussion, the topic of ‘sexist jokes’. I have recently got a few messages, where members have complained about sexist jokes and cartoons being posted here. Give me your opinion on what do you think about those.
(Sexist = men rediculing women as a gender or vice verca)

why do we have to debate so much on this… the pics just have to be DECENT!.. its quite easy to figure out whats decent and whats not…!

and in regard to another post: Some people felt comfortable with half naked vinny’s pictures…I think they should get their stupid beliefs straightened up.

and you know whats sad about it.. kay all the older people are the ones supporting the indecency

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

and all the younger ones are against it… are ‘we’ younger ones supposed to teach you people what’s right or not..? You guys should be the one enforcing some strict rules…!


**.~{ To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing }~. **

How about posts like k2pk's Porche pics? Shouldn't there be some sort of restriction on posting material of seductive nature (may I add, 'highly seductive nature') that causes mental torture?

Anyway, why you guys are hung up on this number 12? Majority of the people of visit this place fall between the age range of 18-28.

Shouldn't members take some responsibilty themselves? I mean, they got this place where they can come and hang out, and now they want administration to manage everything for them? Grow up already.

Let me give you an example:
Couple of days ago, like usual, Jawaan posted some derogatory stuff. Every single member who participated in that thread bashed and thrashed and pretty much told him the kinda idiot he's and he's should shove it where it belongs. I think if that guy has any sort of self-respect, he won't post anything like that again.

The moral of the story is that when members don't like something, they raise their voices and let their opinions known. That's what makes a discussion place so enjoyable. Diverse opinions. You have you opinion, you let your voice heard, you move on. You did that in Jawaan's case, bravo!

But what you guys are trying to do here is asking the moderator to take the responsibility for you. You guys are asking moderator to be this saviour, protector who won't let anything of indecent nature come in front of your eyes. In other, simple words, you are acting like teeny, weeny babbies. I say face what's out there and don't let it pollute your minds, don't let it effect you or stop you from having your own point of view or belief system. But if you can't do that and anything that you read and see shakes the grounds that you stand on then you don't deserve to be given an internet connection to begin with.

Now, we all know that there are extreme cases where you can't let things go so loose and that's where moderator's job comes into play. But don't come running down to him crying every single time you see something that you don't agree with or find something indecent according to your point of view. Take some responsibility, will ya?

So relax and enjoy the show.

Dopey dear, yes we represent Pakistan but that doesn't mean we NEED to take those standards and apply them to ourselves while living foreign counteries. It simply means that we are lucky to have the opportunity to be exposed to more than one culutre, one value and belief system. I say we use that to our advantage, and try not to fall back into the well we came out of.

Even if you look at Pakistan, majority of the people live in villages. There is a stark difference in standards between life in villages and life in cities like Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad etc.

Keep it real, and keep it simple and let the members control their own grounds to stand on.

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited January 16, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
**

hk, where art thou?**
[/quote]

sighs alright pristine..u asked for it.
ive kept my mouth shut up until now on purpose. I've let my opinion known everytime i find something objectionable...i'd just be repeating myself here wouldnt i? and those who post indecent pictures will keep on posting them...
im surprised at how many guppees were actually in favour of looking at that bare midriff of vaneeza's. The only argument i keep on hearing from them is "everyone's doing it in Pakistan" Thats ridiculous. So im supposed to think walking around the streets half naked is ok just cuz some women are doing it? In most places, they'd get harrassed by men, im pretty sure of that. Besides,those women do not represent the women of Pakistan.
As for the fact that this forum's American and Pakistani standards dont matter here...does that mean Islamic standards dont matter here either? Most of us are Muslims and there's no use trying to keep Islam out of this when its supposed to guide us through all matters of life.
and another thing, all of this has forced me to assume that all those guppees who dont find bare navels indecent wont have a problem wearing clothes like that themselves, or allowing their wives, daughters and sisters to wear them.


Al-Imran-3:160 **~~"If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? in Allah, then, Let believers put their trust."~~ **

[This message has been edited by hk (edited January 16, 2001).]

werd!!

wellll i dont agree hk..
the thing with u is, when u post something urself, u find it totally normal and okay, wen infact they r as indecent as the ones others post, but wen someone else posts them, u all of a sudden become molvi Qurbaan Ullah Sheerazi from patoki…
and start acting like a jerk and become an extremist…i dont have anything against u and i dont even know u… but u definitely arent fair n straight, u DO have double standards… try giving lectures to urself once a while too wen u are on a posting spree with all sorts of pics in it.
Grow up is the word for u, and as for the topic,
i think pristine so far u,ve done a wonderful job in keeping things in limit, keep it up.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

and as far as sexist jokes are concerned,
if u think they r just light hearted comedy, let it in, and if they r over the limit of decency, then u shud delete it,
, ppl keep in mind that by posting such jokes, the guy doesnt mean to disrespect any1, hes merely sharing a nice laugh with all of us other guppies.
again on the standards, pristine, there can never b a strict line as far as standards r concerned, u just have to figure it out urself in each n every individual case…
but so far i think gupshup and especially iamge gallery is pretty decent,

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

okeez
enuff of me for now.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/soldier.gif


fly like a bee, sting a like a butterfly.

gimme a break kaka…compare the pictures i posted to those of vaneeza with her navel showing, there’s a huge difference.
contrary to ur belief, im not stupid ok?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif


^^Believe to Understand^^**

[This message has been edited by hk (edited January 17, 2001).]