Someone pointed out to me, that the US Oath of Allegiance contains sentences which are “shirk” and make the oath-taker “Murtid”. Please remember that this Oath of Allegiance needs to be taken by every naturalized US citizen. Read on and comment. Thanks
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The problem here is “renunciation of allegiance to every other soverignty”. Does it come under “shirk”, or is it allowed.
Please provide answers based on “daleel”
May Allah guide us to the right path (Ameen)
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited September 10, 2000).]
well i can tell you one little story...
During a conference with my sons teacher she asked us a quiestion..." does your country have some problems with USA", ( well who doesn't) ... i asked her why ... and she said well your son refuses to take the pledge of alliegnce during the morning assembly and refuses even to stand up in respect... my sons reply was " i am a Pakistani!! why should i take pledge to the amercian flag..." speaks volumes....esp considering the fact that he is only 5....
i think this text refers to allegiance to other govt's, not on the basis of religion, this a sort of built in safe mechanism, where basically you are saying that you accept america as your homeland and will fight to protect your homeland.They are not asking you to face the white house and pray or accept jesus as God's son.
Remember religion and politic are seperate here, and they do not mean to refer to religion in any way.
and are we being hypocrites about this, since you are already not allow to do a few other things according to the laws, even though islam allows you to do it, for example having multiple wives, you cannot have that here, according to the law, you accept that and keep living here.
yet if someone still has problems with the oath they are more than welcome to go back home and live there, which they don't wanna do, so accept the oath, you cannot have it both ways.
[This message has been edited by purana_zamana (edited September 10, 2000).]
I have several of my friends, who live in USA for many many years, and enjoy living there, work there and their kids are born US citizens. All this is true. But they won't become naturalized US citizens because naturalized US citizens have to take the oath, and they consider this oath to be shirk. So they just continue to live there on the green card, even though they are eligibile to become naturalized US citizens.
This, I guess is a matter of personal choice, and we can not say that someone should leave the country, just bcz they do not wish to take the Oath of Allegiance. People live in US, legally on valid visas and green cards without pledging any allegiance. This is allowed by law and moral values as well.
In my opinion, the teacher is wrong to insist that the kid take the oath of allegiance. As stated elsewhere, religion and state is separate in US, and unless required by law, you can refuse to do anything if it goes against your religious beliefs. Plus the kid is not even US citizen. Why should he take the oath of allegiance, anyway.
PS.
Just a note.
1. Born citizens of US do not have to take the oath of allegiance.
2. The part in the oath which refers to "bear arms in defence of USA" is optional, and you can refuse to pledge that part. Other than this, the remaining oath is mandatory for ppl seeking to become naturalized citizens.
thank you pristine....
I have come to US for a limited time, till i complete my studies...I have no intention of becoming a US citizen...i am happy in what i am... a Pakistani....My son is also a Pakistani he has no need to tkae the oath...would an american child living in Pakistan pledge alliegence to Pakistan, just because he happens to study in some Pakistani school ... i am sure these very same guys who are saying that my kid was wrong would say the same thing about pakistani teacher...in fact they would even ask that the govt of pakistan formally say sorry to US govt.......
This is slavish mentality which unfortunately many of us have...everything gora sahib does is good....we should be ashmed of our origins........kalay log...gunday desi...
[This message has been edited by pukka desi (edited September 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by pukka desi (edited September 11, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Dr LoveLess:
*Why does showing respect to a flag matter???
*
[/quote]
Some symbols represent a culture, a people, and a tradition. Symbolism is a very important poetic concept in the human psyche, and by disrepecting a symbol, you disrepect the people behind the symbol.
Having been through this discussion with Xtreme - no I would not be hurt. I would instead infer just how stupid, ignorant, and gutless the flag burner is.
Unfortunately, Free Speech means even idiots get to express themselves.
[quote]
Originally posted by astrosfan: Having been through this discussion with Xtreme - no I would not be hurt. **I would instead infer just how stupid, ignorant, and gutless the flag burner is.
Unfortunately, Free Speech means even idiots get to express themselves.**
[/quote]
Well you would be hurt, your "highlighted" writing suggests that you would get hurt.
If burning of the flag wouldnt hur you, why would you call the people who burn the flag, stupid, ignorant, and gutless if you didnt get hurt, why should you show any emotion(good or bad)?
Burning of a flag does NOT effect anyone or anything; no matter what country it is. People burn flags that are one inch paper and to 100 feet cloth flags, how does burning of any of those matrials effect you?
Why would it effect anyone for that matter?
Its you your self that lets it hurt you, not the that SOMEONE burned the flag of your country.
]
[This message has been edited by Dr LoveLess (edited September 12, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 19, 2000).]
Let us take a certain symbol - let's say that you have a picture of your mother hanging somewhere in your house. Let us then say that someone entered your house and started to lay excrement on a picture of your mother.
Do you not get upset, or do you have superhuman passivity?
Let us now say that I build a mosque, replete with Quranic quotes along it's wall, much like the Taj Mahal. Let us then say that I then destroy this mosque out of spite. My property, my use. Do Muslims not get upset at what that act represents?
Thanks for promising upon the Quran that you do not intend to live in the US or North American after "your studies".
Pls take all wahabis with you!**
[/quote]
ufffffffffffffffff merey .....!!!!!!!!!
i reallly dont know what to do about ur STUPID MENTALITY U FU!!!!!!!!!!!!
where the hell have u heard any or such thing about WAHABIS??????? and y r u so interested in it?????? should i consider it as that u wana to convert in to wahabis or something else!!!!!???
well ppl u can easily figure out that how low leveled mind/brain (which he dont have) he has by askiing about WAHABIS under totally diefferent question!!!!!!!
maaan i dont know for how long im still gonna JOOTA BARSANA ON UR HEAD!!!!!!!!!!
Astro my friend first of all I as a muslim do NOT hang picture of my mother in my house. 2nd why would ANYONE enter my house and do such thing? Your example are bit irrelevant.
Quranic script and the cloth or the paper that flags are made out of are 2 different things. Quran is a Allah’s word(Gods word) you can’t compare some man made 2 inch paper/cloth with word of God.
Is that the reason why the wahabis marauders trampled on the Quran, tore up the pages of some precious copies; and made tea inside the Ka'aba; demolished the tombs of the Prophets relatives; killed hundreds of thousands muslims in Mecca & Medina; etc, etc.
What are the Wahabis? This is written down in the accounts of the Khilafate of Islam when one wahabi leader - Abdul Saud was brought before the Caliph and given the chance to do "Tawbah and Embrace Islam"; instead Abdul Saud tried to offer some gems that he had stolen from the tomb of the prophet (saw)!
The 4 representative of Ahl As Sunnah & the Khalif of Islam procalimed their decision which has been entered into History forever: They pronounced the Wahabiyya briggand - KAFIR and had him publicly BE-HEADED!
Thanks for bringing to us another example of your delusion!