Is The Testimony of 1 man = 2 women

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

this may have been already discussed… take it as jsut another view on the topic..

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According to today’s Muslim scholars and leaders, women are not fit to rule or hold any office of significance because God has indicated that they are deficient when compared to men. The Muslim scholars will tell you that in the Quran God has made the testimony of ONE man equal to that of TWO women because women are forgetful and emotionally driven.

Any sane and rational person who has worked or studied with women will know that they can be just as smart, if not smarter, than most of their male counterparts. At the same time, I have yet to find this fictional woman who forgets or whose memory is weaker than a man’s (we all wish this was the case sometimes). Let us examine the verse where all these unequal and sexist conclusions have been drawn:

“Oh you who believe, if you borrow until a delayed period then you will write it amongst you, and let he who is an official record keeper write between you, and let him not refuse to write as God has commanded it. And when he writes, let he who has borrowed give the details of the transaction and he shall fear his Lord God and not omit anything. If the one who has borrowed is not fit, or if he is weak, or if he can’t complete the information; then let he who is responsible for him fill-in on his behalf AND YOU SHALL HAVE TWO WITNESSES from your men, and if they are not two men then let them be ONE man and TWO women from those whose testimony you accept, so if one of them is unable to attend , then the other will be reminded to take her place…..” (2/282)

Although the verse where the witness issue is presented is quite long, I feel that the portion above is sufficient to give the readers the full picture. The verse stipulates the following points:

  1. If there is a transaction involving debt between two or more parties and whose repayment will be at a later stage, then it must be documented.

  2. The documentation of such a transaction is to be done through an official record keeper or institution.

  3. The one who has borrowed the debt will be the one giving the record keeper the details of the transaction as he/she will put his signature or print on the document.

  4. If the one who has borrowed is incapacitated for any reason from giving information, then his/her guardian shall take such responsibility.

  5. In the event that a guardian is giving the information then AND ONLY THEN are two witnesses required.

  6. It is preferable that the two witnesses be males, but if that is not possible then one man and two women will suffice.

  7. At the time of testimony ONLY TWO witnesses are required, if one of the women is incapacitated then the other must take her place.

The question we should all ask ourselves is “What would cause one of the women not to be able to make her way to the testimony?”.

The answer is obvious: the key difference between men and women is their physiology. Women give birth and men don’t, women must rest for a lengthy period after child birth while men don’t, women as mothers must suckle their children while men don’t, women have menstrual cycles which incapacitate there movement somewhat while men don’t. These differences exist as a matter of physical fact and have nothing to do with intellegence or will.

It is obvious from the Quran that God calls on TWO witnesses to be present (this is clear from the sequence of words in the verse). God being the knower and creator of all things knows that having one man and one women as a witness is not practical since on the day they are called the women may be incapacitated while the man may not, and since God calls on TWO witnesses, then the chances of having both present becomes much higher when TWO women and ONE man are selected so at the time of calling there are three people to choose from (please note that had God meant that the testimony of ONE man equals TWO women then He would have continued the verse and said: If TWO women and One man are not available then you shall select FOUR women).

This precious Quran speaks of nothing but fairness and equality for both men and women, yet it is the evil wishes of those who have corrupted the religion to turn It into a book that serves their own purposes and desires.

May God increase our knowledge and grant us wisdom.

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That’s a weird site sadzzz…The author speaks of the Holy Prophet :saw: as if he is his next door neighbour…Not ‘pbuh’ or ‘saw’ anywhere and Allah :swt: is replaced with ‘God’…I even doubt if its Muslims who made the site…The reason I say this is because Muslims are spoken of as such animals, and we know we are not supposed to ridicule, insult or belittle our brethren in faith…It’s forbidden…

The author says that he wishes to portray Islam in a light which is free from personal bias, yet all his articles are nothing more than critiques of the Quran and Sunnah based on his own ignorant perceptions…

It is so simple…You wanna be a Muslim and follow the faith of Islam, then do so as ordered by Allah :swt:, if not, then there remains little more than faith now, doesn’t it…I mean, would it be faith if I said, “Heck, I won’t do this because it makes no sense to me…”…That’s where faith breaks down and personal opinions take over erasing faith with logic…And we know that anthropologists, philosophers and scientists all invariably agree that faith falls outside the category of logic…

So it’s really your opinion if you wish to replace faith with logic…If not, then Islam demands submission to the will of Allah :swt: regardless of what doubts and shortcomings you may have about it…

It is unfortunately this same logic that the ‘Muslim’ gays applied to themselves saying that we can be Muslims and we can be gays…Their logic and desire to fulfill their heinous lusts overrode their faith thereby making them claim this preposterous assumption that you can be gay and a Muslim…And we all know what happened to the people of Lut :as: as well as in the Bible about Sodom and Gomorrah…Homosexuality is plain and simple kufr…Of course your logic would say, “No it’s not kufr as two people of the same sex can be in love”…This liberal approach to Islam is what is whitewashing faith with logic and making the Muslims weak in faith and thereby in strength…

There are many things in the Quran and the Ahadith which contradict logic of man, but then Allah :swt: knows that man is treacherous and will always counter His Commandments with his own logic…

The Holy Quran states:

The thing is, would you still remain a ‘believer’ if you did not have faith in Allah :swt:'s Commands and believed in the Prophet :saw:'s teachings? If you do not believe, do you remain a believer?

3

definitely not a site by a muslim....
maybe some muslims with corrupted beliefs....

i suggest ppl not to use this site for reference....
the site has twisted around many topics supporting them with bogus evidence....

seems like a site by the pervezis or the Quraniyeen as they r called....
ppl who deny Hadith....

4

key words for the verse are

tudilla
fatuzakkar

Rather than waste our energies on shooting down the messenger it'll be educational to try and find out the possibility of these two words meaning anything other than currently accepted meanings.

From within the Qur'an the first is more like "straying from the path' so is closer to 'err' than to 'being unable to attend'.

The second only occurs once in the verse so we have to see it's other forms which again come to 'she reminds'.. which with ihdahum alukhra means closer to "she reminds the other" than "she be reminded to take her place".

Unless the author has some other reasoning (which he/she doesn't provide) we cannot arrive at the translation provided.

5

I’m to to reply by quoting verbatime from two sources.

Source 1, which covers the general principle

Most Qur’anic references to testimony (witness) do not make any reference to gender. Some references fully equate the testimony of males and females.

And for those who launch a charge against their spouses and have (in support) no evidence but their own, their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. But it would avert the punishment from the wife if she bears witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that (her husband) is telling a like; And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth. (Qur’an 24:6-9)

My personal addition: You can see here how the woman’s testimony has the exact same weight here as the man’s testimony

Source 2, which deal more specifically with the issue of two women witnesses beig required vs one man

The only verse in the entire Qur’an to equate the testimony of two women to that of one man is the so-called verse of debt (ayat al dayn), which occurs in Qur’an 2:282. This verse contains a significant amount of material that later jurists categorized variously as recommended or merely instructional (irshad) and without legal import. However, a very few jurists opined that the recording of debts, witnessing, and all other matters dealt with in the verse may be categorized as obligatory (wajib).
Whether we agree or disagree with a particular school, there is near unanimity among all jurists that the Qur’an’s mention of testimony in relation to transactions was revealed to advise Muslims on how they might reduce the possibility of misunderstandings arising among themselves. Therefore, the entire matter of testimony was revealed to humanity by way of instruction. Obviously, instruction is one thing, while binding legal precepts are another matter entirely.
The verse of debt, moreover, may be seen as connecting testimony, the taking of witnesses, the agreement of both parties to the contract at the time of its ratification, and the judge’s (qadi) acceptance of testimony given by the witnesses, as follows:

and call upon two of your men to act as witnesses; and if two men are not available, then a man and two women from among such as are acceptable to you as witnesses… (2:282)

The verse goes on to explain the reason for seeking testimony from two women in place of the testimony of one man, by saying “…so that if one of them should make a mistake, the other could remind her” (2:282).

Thus, the verse indicates clearly that there are differences in the ability of women to serve, under the prevailing social conditions, as competent witnesses and givers of testimony in cases involving financial transactions. The relevant wording implies, that in general, transactions were not often matters of concern to women at that time. It also indicates that the actual witness would be one woman, even though her testimony might require the support of another woman who would "remind" her if necessary. Thus, one woman acts as a guarantor for the accuracy of the other's testimony.
Obviously, then, the two are not on the same level, for one witness is supposed to be knowledgeable and aware of that to which she is testifying. As such her testimony is legally acceptable. The other witness is considered merely a guarantor, for the basis of all legal testimony is that it should aid the judge in reviewing the case as if he/she had been an actual witness thereof. Moreover, testimony is considered a legal responsibility so as to instill within the witness a heightened sense of his/her awareness of God and of the importance of the undertaking, so that he/she will not be careless with the testimony or swayed by emotions or personal feelings. If the verse were understood in this way, it is likely that many of the past and present disputes surrounding it could be avoided, for the main cause of such disputes has been the belief that the verse has binding and legal significance.
6

Mad you make a nice point with the first source, but then again it's about matters personal to the man and woman and I doubt how one would engage external witnesses for that.

As for the bearing testimony in matters of debt, let's not sugarcoat it.. clearly two women are required even if one of them is required to testify. So either we explore various permissible meanings like the author of the subject post did or we accept that a single male vitness doesn't require verification but a single female witness does.