Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
both types believe in tassuwaf. basic difference is type 1 does not use music to preach whereas type 2 does.
i used to think that type 2 believe "no sharia without Tariqah" but after reading psyah's posts it seems type 1 too believes the same.
but it confuses me, might be the reason is sufis from same silsila could belong to different school of thought.
what ever you see on the mazars is something else, mostly uneducated people do different things. As far as majority of Barelvis in Pakistan are concerned, they dont even know much about their school of thought. Frankly I have not even heard the discussion of noor bashar and wahdat ul wajood.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
As far as we are concerned, the Mullahs have divided us to such an extent that we cannot even think beyond what the Mullahs of our schools of thought teach us.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
One more thing left that i should have responded to.
salfis are more rigid then hanafis on the whole. but i personally have come across several saflis that are very kind in dealing and preaching unlike majority of salfis. So they do share these qualities. Similarly i also have come across several hanifis who are equally rigid as majority safis is.
I used to sit and study with Salafis ... I found the knowledge when it got to the deeper issues was inconsistent and I agree they are rigid (but in some matters they are not) ... but I have some problems with rigidity ... Strictness should be applied on ourselves but leniency should be applied on others ... that is good character.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Mongol conquest by itself was not responsible for decline of Muslim golden age. It was the closing of Muslim mind which was the main reason. Read about the debate between Rationalists (Mutazilites) and Traditionalists (Asharis). Asharis under leadership of Ghazali totally obliterated rationalist thought in Islam, and made religion a set of belief system which should be accepted without questioning. That is closing of mind in a nutshell.
Nice try ... The refutation of rationalists came about 300 years earlier ... And the real reason why rationalism was dominant was because the rulers found favour with it ... It led to corruption in the ulema ...
At first technological progress came as a form of blessing ... but as the ummah started to become more and more materialistic they still continued to grow technically and started to place their trust in such matters of rationalism ... This was misguidance that the people had earned as a form of punishment ... the increase in wealth and technology is a fitnah ... recognised by the rightly guided ulema ...
As Muslims we should know that poverty and decline comes as a trial as well as a blessing and also technology and progress comes as a trial as well as a blessing ... the way we can tell the difference is see its effects:
If poverty and decline make us remember Allah (SWT) more and bring us in His proximity then they come as blessings ... if power, technology and progress make us remember Allah (SWT) more and bring us in His promiximity then they too come as blessings.
If either poverty and decline or progress and advancement take us away from Allah (SWT) then they serve as a way of Allah (SWT) leaving us to our devices, His fitnah and Displeasure ... that is why we don't say the advanced West is better than us ... it can't be despite their rising to power and dominating us and being disrespectful to us ... How do you think Allah (SWT) Views them when they behave that way towards those who Love Him?
The Mongol conquest was an awakening call to us ... if the few scholars were arguing for moving away from rationalism they were doing so because rationalism was taking people away from remembrance of God and heart-alignment ... they didn't care for the boon in economics. Had we remained as people, conscious of Alllah (SWT) there would have been no way that our progress would have been halted ... but I think our Golden Age in technology came to an end to preserve our Golden Ummah.
Now if there is not rationalism in that - I could chew my hat ...
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I used to sit and study with Salafis ... I found the knowledge when it got to the deeper issues was inconsistent and I agree they are rigid (but in some matters they are not) ... but I have some problems with rigidity ... Strictness should be applied on ourselves but leniency should be applied on others ... that is good character.
see psyah.. you equated etikaaf with temporal seclusion. I didn’t want to say this, my apology in advance, but to me, that is another inconsistency.
you have fardh prayer to offer, if you want to go one step further then there is complete guidance for offering nawafil. similarly we have a legitimate practice like etikaaf now if you want to go one step further then you will follow aitekaaf for more days but that must be in masjid, not temporal seclusion anywhere you want.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Inconsistency means that “we say something should not be done based on a criterion or should be done on a criterion and we end up doing the opposite ourselves” … The argument for seclusion (khalwa) I gave was based on the idea of seclusion per se not being condemned and gave settings for it. I did not equate khalwa with i’teqaf … nor did I give khalwa a certain classification - by deeming it a Sunnah or such, but as can be seen from the fruits of khalwa - people have found guidance in it and if nothing condemns it (In order to demonstrate that I cannot perform temporal seclusion “anywhere I want” - do you have a statement that condemns that for an “activity” that is not i’tikaf?) - then it should be deemed - Muba’h - (permissible-neutral) with the benefit that empirical evidence shows. The inconsistencies are around the definitions given for “bid’ah” - yet those definitions are not congruent and they end up putting burdens on themselves … Sidi Ahmad Zarruq who was a Faqih as well as a Sufi Master gave a brilliant definition of “bid’ah” and that is consistent.
There are many more evidences for the permissible nature of khalwa - some people extract evidences from the life of Maryam (AS), the Companions of the Cave … but the key fact is - it delivers what it says on the “tin” … it works and people do become Conscious of Allah (SWT) … http://www.40hadithnawawi.com/index.php/the-hadiths/hadith-31
You might want to look at this Salafi link (below) … It is warning about Sufis and the claim of Sufis in “Zuhd” … It is largely filled with inaccuracies, but it gives a general pouring out of all the things the Salafis find problematic in tassuwwuf. I don’t know why … but that is their position. I can tackle each of those points … but I think you should read it since you are already inclined that way … See if what is said is all true and see if the manner in what is being said is “good” and think or feel after reading it - you feel closer to Allah (SWT) or not …