I was just wandering if Akther comes anyway near the 2 Ws in match winning performances. Some of his match winning performances are.
In Calcuta against India.
In AUS. in three math one day match competition.
In Sharjah against SA.
The thing is not that he is not a good bowler but his attitude like he said after Lahore test that on a hard wicket he can get India under 150 runs while his contribution in Lahore test was not match winning.
oh come on now. Enough with crucifixing Shoaib Akhtar. So what he did not bowl well? So what if he bolted out under suspicious circumstances? So what? Remember 1996 Banglore quarterfinals and Waseem Akram? So much for the two W's. Remember match fixing allegations against them? I am not against the 2 W's. They're my fav. bowling pair just like the majority's here but the constant comparisons and Shoaib Akhtar criticism have turned irritating.
If the Pakistan team depends so much on Shoaib Akhar, then God knows I am glad we lost.
I would alsolike to clarify that i do not intend to single out the author of this post but my response is for everyone moaning about Shoaib.
I agree with you there powers
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
oh come on now. Enough with crucifixing Shoaib Akhtar. So what he did not bowl well? So what if he bolted out under suspicious circumstances? So what? Remember 1996 Banglore quarterfinals and Waseem Akram? So much for the two W's. Remember match fixing allegations against them? I am not against the 2 W's. They're my fav. bowling pair just like the majority's here but the constant comparisons and Shoaib Akhtar criticism have turned irritating.
If the Pakistan team depends so much on Shoaib Akhar, then God knows I am glad we lost.
I would alsolike to clarify that i do not intend to single out the author of this post but my response is for everyone moaning about Shoaib.
[/QUOTE]
Buddy this is the game of cricket. The game that runs into our veins. If a nation can make one hero, it has all the right to blame him for his evils. Apart from his no-swing flat bowling and short pitch deliveries (that made him look like sikandar bakht at times) during this series, his negative cricketing and attitude made us angry. And rightly so.
If we are fans of 2Ws is just because of their talent and matchwining performances over last 15 years. Match fixing and enimity among them did damage their reputation and somewhat their careers too.
But as far as talent and performance is concern this JAMADAAR is nowhere near 2Ws. They are the jewels in the lethal bowling crown, along with Holding, Imran, Hedlee, Thompson, Garner and Marshall. This idiot will remain the pop star of today's commercial cricket, but will never be able to reach the hights that those greats earned with their heart winning performances.
:k: couldn’t have said it better myself 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Buddy this is the game of cricket. The game that runs into our veins. If a nation can make one hero, it has all the right to blame him for his evils. Apart from his no-swing flat bowling and short pitch deliveries (that made him look like sikandar bakht at times) during this series, his negative cricketing and attitude made us angry. And rightly so
[/QUOTE]
Well, the nation then must also have the strength and the decency to stand by its "hero" in times of crises. What kind of a nation is this that doesn't even support its "heroes" when they're down? The nation must also make up its mind, once and for all, whether wants to treat Shoaib as a "hero" or a "jamadaar". With the current confused state of mind, I am not surprised the nation fails to see that the team as a whole failed, not Shoaib alone. I couldn't be bothered, but i am sure someone, with a strong will and a lot of free time, can easily dig out zillions of posts here praising Shoaib to death for his performances against RSA and Kiwis. He wasn't the second best bowler on PWC ranking for nothing. If the nation's thinking continues to be dictated by the the direction of the gushing blood that rages in its veins, then I would not be surprised if it continues to meet failures very successfully in the future too. No team can expect to win on hard work of a single super-talented cricketer. Look at India. So long as they depended heavily on Tendulkar, they failed consistently. The day they started playing as a team, they transformed themselves into a winning unit. Does the nation with cricket in its veins and nothing in its brains want to go that way? Does it?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
But as far as talent and performance is concern this JAMADAAR is nowhere near 2Ws. They are the jewels in the lethal bowling crown,
[/QUOTE]
..and you state that as a matter of fact? Shoaib accepts that he can never expect to achieve what the two W's or Imran did. In fact, comparing Shoaib with W's and Imran is unfair to all the parties concerned. That's why they say cricketers of the pedigree of Imran, Waseem and Waqar are not born everyday. About time the nation realizes that.
Quite frankly, I am appalled, amazed, embarrassed and disgusted at the same time by the constant calls for head rolling, and undue criticism of a singular person. Hardly a time to run over by emotions and let them cloud our judgement. This is a time when the PCB needs to sit down and analyse the reasons for defeat, and let me tell you, one of them is an over-reliance on Shoaib. The PCB Chairman has said that he's going to think through the changes and not jump the gun. I hope he means it.
Mr. C Powers, Pakistani team has all the rights in the world to depend on this bowler. The players need Pakistan not Pakistan needs these players.
What do you think that Sri Lanka stops depending on Murli or the Australians stop depending on Warne???? The players are in the team because thay are dependable.
I have no problems that he didnt perform what was expected from him. He is a human and he can be out of form but why do he always talk to media in a fashion that he is the best cricketer in the world.
He is no great than Sachin, Lara or Murli. I havent seen lara saying that he will score 400 before the match started.......................
Why in Lahore he said that he will get India under 150?????? even he didnt troubled them at all (except Phatan) in Lahore and then the whole nation saw that Dravid alone scored 270??? Where was Mr. Actor??? ACTING IN THE DRESSING ROOM
I think he bowled well in the one dayers but was unlucky but he really has an attitude problem and that should be fixed otherwise Pakistan has so much talent that they can produce 10s of Shoaibs.
I agree with the majority here.Shoiab is not the same class of 2 Ws.
if the 2 Ws were great then Shoaib is very good .Hes got a severe attitude problem which must be fixed.
Also technically the main weopen of 2 ws was beautiful swing bowling while shoaib relies more on pace which doesnt last long and thats y he becomes unfit after every series or so.
his problem arent doing him and pakistan any good .Hes got a lot to prove before being regarded as true and consistent match winner.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
Well, the nation then must also have the strength and the decency to stand by its "hero" in times of crises. What kind of a nation is this that doesn't even support its "heroes" when they're down? The nation must also make up its mind, once and for all, whether wants to treat Shoaib as a "hero" or a "jamadaar". With the current confused state of mind, I am not surprised the nation fails to see that the team as a whole failed, not Shoaib alone. I couldn't be bothered, but i am sure someone, with a strong will and a lot of free time, can easily dig out zillions of posts here praising Shoaib to death for his performances against RSA and Kiwis. He wasn't the second best bowler on PWC ranking for nothing. If the nation's thinking continues to be dictated by the the direction of the gushing blood that rages in its veins, then I would not be surprised if it continues to meet failures very successfully in the future too. No team can expect to win on hard work of a single super-talented cricketer. Look at India. So long as they depended heavily on Tendulkar, they failed consistently. The day they started playing as a team, they transformed themselves into a winning unit. Does the nation with cricket in its veins and nothing in its brains want to go that way? Does it?
..and you state that as a matter of fact? Shoaib accepts that he can never expect to achieve what the two W's or Imran did. In fact, comparing Shoaib with W's and Imran is unfair to all the parites concerned. That's why they say cricketers of the pedigree of Imran, Waseem and Waqar are not born everyday. About time the nation realizesthat.
..and you state that as a matter of fact? Shoaib accepts that he can never expect to achieve what the two W's or Imran did. In fact, comparing Shoaib with W's and Imran is unfair to all the parties concerned. That's why they say cricketers of the pedigree of Imran, Waseem and Waqar are not born everyday. About time the nation realizes that.
Quite frankly, I am appalled, amazed, embarrassed and disgusted at the same time by the constant calls for head rolling, and undue criticism of a singular person. Hardly a time to run over by emotions and let them cloud our judgement. This is a time when the PCB needs to sit down and analyse the reasons for defeat, and let me tell you, one of them is an over-reliance on Shoaib. The PCB Chairman has said that he's going to think through the changes and not jump the gun. I hope he means it.
[/QUOTE]
this is an interesting debate about the role of nation after a defeat and it becomes more interesting if we look into this issue specifically from paki. nation stand point and its national history. first i did not want to open up a thread abt this topic but aftrer seeing you guys involved in same sort of discussion, i have decided to open up a new thread discussing why cricket is so sensitive in pakistan and what should this nation do after such a defeats?
Forget Shoaib caliboy, how come you’re not as good as the two W’s?
The Pakistani nation has the right to demand it’s citizens produce sterling efforts at all times and if Shoaib has failed to match up to the two W’s then so have you 
Shoaib is an idiot. Period. I hope either bollywood or lollywood grabs him for some cheap sleazy flick and that he remains there forever.
Mr. Xtreme, I guess u r out of Pakistan for a long time now and u would have been picked in the side if you were in Pak. not to play but only just to support ur best fast bowler Shoaib