Can you guys explain which one of the following two opinions a Muslim is supposed to believe and practice that, religion is a personal matter where Muslims have the liberty to do whatever they want OR Muslims are promised to implement the Islamic Law in their lives and preach it, with references from Quran and Hadith?
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
You always have the liberty to do whatever you want as long as you abide by the rules and regulations defined by Quran and Hadith. Which fiqah you follow is totally your personal matter/decision.
Remember, Islam requires only to fulfill the "Faraiz and Waajbeen" to be a good muslim.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
There are elements of deen that are between the person and Allah. for instance, offering prayer, fasting, hajj and other ibadaats. People in authority can preach and try to bring the people to the right path through dialogue making use of teachings of Quran and sunnah but authorities do not have the right to shove things down its people's throats. They cannot act as 'Khudai Fojdaar' in the matters that are exclusively between the Creator and the person.
On the other hand, in the matters that involve person's obligations towards society and its members then yes the authority may intervene. For instance, zakaat, share of descendants in the property etc. The islamic government should make sure that there are no privileged groups within society i.e., all are equal before law irrespective of creed, color, race and religion.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
Islam encompasses all things, and addresses all aspects of Life whether It's family and how to treat relations, or rights of neighbors, being a better individual, and then enjoining that goodness to others to create a society that resonates what God has commanded. Islam sets boundaries within which you must live, if you transgress those limits then are you still following Islam?...a question that's best answered by every person.
So long as people keep wanting to desire that Islam adapt to their changing lifestyle, they'll keep blaming religion for all the ills of the society. It should be the other way around. Adapt to the requirements of the faith even in an ever-changing world, and look to divine guidance on how to address the issues of society. Who better to seek help from than the One who created it all to begin with?
Quran is full of guidance, but the type of guidance that's there may or may not be for every person. Quran guides to a path of the hereafter, and promises a better eternal life if I keep on the straight path and live this life as a test; which it is. If I went to Quran looking for guidance on how to amass wealth and achieve it all in this world in terms of material, it is not going to guide me.
Quran not only guides to what is right and wrong, but cites examples of historical events of generations who thought they knew better than the Creator, so what was their end like? Where are they now?...
Religion is a personal matter. Islam has within it Religion, and Politics. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) is an example of a Religious Leader as well as a Commander who not only guided people in matters of the faith, but also established a system of Governance the like of which was not seen before, and hasn't been matched since then. It's a pity that model is lost on most countries whose populations are muslim.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
So Religion is personal matter when it comes to ibadaats like offering prayer, fasting and hajj. Is it then also a personal matter when others are disrupting the Muslim society values?
How to deal with a group who spread things like obscenity that make it hard for us to expose our children to Islamic environment?
I know different guys from religious families involved in such activities that their parents would be ashamed of if it come to their knowledge. All this is due to these non-religious forces because they are influencing the society and we cannot isolate our children from society.
Had religion a personal matter it might have disappeared from earth long ago, maybe after the few year of its appearance.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
Our Religion is not complete unless implemented at state level.
See for example there are *huds *for some personal ahkam like not praying and doing zina. Even thou we are required not to judge some on based on this and we are required not to breach privacy of others, but when this breach comes to the notice of islamic government it should punish people for not following the ahkam.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
The society can set a minimum level for individuals, media etc. If anyone goes below it, that would be considered obscene but it doesn't mean that every woman should be put behind 'shuttlecock burqas'. You can put certain limits for your sphere of influence and cannot dictate the whole world. I know families that live in europe and americas who have brought up their children very well and despite growing up in a society where all sorts of moral ills are present unchecked, they clearly standout and show how well their parents did their duty. So not everything can be manipulated by authorities. people in their own sphere should take up their responsibilities and act accordingly.
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
The society can set a minimum level for individuals, media etc. If anyone goes below it, that would be considered obscene but it doesn't mean that every woman should be put behind 'shuttlecock burqas'. You can put certain limits for your sphere of influence and cannot dictate the whole world. I know families that live in europe and americas who have brought up their children very well and despite growing up in a society where all sorts of moral ills are present unchecked, they clearly standout and show how well their parents did their duty. So not everything can be manipulated by authorities. people in their own sphere should take up their responsibilities and act accordingly.
Those are very few examples of very religious families, not common Muslims are capable of growing up their children like that where they themselves are getting influenced by media. Furthermore, people in west have some good reasons to tell their children like the difference that their religion is not same as our, and as i said only few can be succeeded in attempt to save their children. What to do here in Pakistan, a Muslim country where everything is being rendered by declaring as legitimate religiously or in the cover of "religion is personal matter".
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
As far as I know and understand, without going into detail and keeping things as precise as possible:
There are different aspects of Religion (when religion concerned is Islam):
1: A part of religion is personal matter.
2: A part of religion is mutual obligation.
3: A part of religion is obligations towards one that is right of others.
4: A part of religion is state mater.
Unfortunately, when people, state or society mixed up these parts and interfere, they create fitna and fisad in society and community. Their action also becomes un-Islamic and sinful, as Islam needs an environment where test of Allah is carried out without any obstruction and force from individuals, society, or state, and that human on judgement day could not claim they did something with their free will when they were forced into, or they could not say that they were forced when they got into with free will.
1: Religion that is personal matter.
All ibadah (religious beliefs, rituals and duties) are personal matters and no one can (at least no one should) interfere, be it individuals, society, or state. If anyone starts interfering than that creates fitna and fisad in society and it is also against Islam.
Examples: Salaat, Saum, Haj, Zakat, or any activities that one does as part of religions or religious beliefs are personal and there is complete freedom here. One is answerable for all these only to Allah and no one else … neither anyone is Allah to make someone answerable for all these things.
2: Mutual obligation is that part of religion that it needs two or more people to get involved, and Islam forbids. Anyhow, as long as violation is under cover or not in open, then individuals involved are not answerable to society or state (would be answerable to only Allah) and no one should interfere nor people should show curiosity of finding them out … though if the violation is in open or in public, then state should interfere with punishment.
Examples: Adultery, gambling, etc ...
3: There are parts of religion that is obligation towards one that is right of others. State can force a person to fulfil obligations toward those who has rights over that person. State can only do that on principle of safeguarding rights of others on a person (not due to violation of obligation by that person).
Examples: Rights of wife, parents, children, neighbour, etc … or inheritance rights.
[Neighbour … when one sells a property or land, right of neighbour is first to purchase as long as price is competitive, and state can enforce that]
4: There is part of religion that is state matter. That is to provide law and order in the country, stop and punish crimes (crimes that are violation of others right to their property, person, life, safety, religious and belief freedom, freedom of thoughts and actions, emotion, etc). In protecting people within their area of influence from outside powers, it is right of state to declare Jihad on invaders or on those harming state and citizens of state. State can announce any punishment for violation of state laws.
Examples: Rape, murder, robbery, theft, fraud, abuses, bribery, etc … actually crimes of one individual against other, against society, or state, that society or state thinks appropriate for punishing.
Overall, in most cases, state interference on individuals’ life within state is such that it is similar for Muslims as well as non-Muslims … apart of safeguarding rights of dependents and others on individuals that Islam made obligation on Muslims (and rights of others) ... but then, if State wants to, state can make such and similar laws obligatory on non-Muslims living in Muslim society (preferably with consent). State can also make laws in similar regards with consent of people, that is not obligatory in Islam ... like restricting Jehaz, expenditure in marriage, extend of food varieties in marriage, marrying more with consent of earlier wife/wives, etc.
So Religion is personal matter when it comes to ibadaats like offering prayer, fasting and hajj. Is it then also a personal matter when others are disrupting the Muslim society values? How to deal with a group who spread things like obscenity that make it hard for us to expose our children to Islamic environment?
I know different guys from religious families involved in such activities that their parents would be ashamed of if it come to their knowledge. All this is due to these non-religious forces because they are influencing the society and we cannot isolate our children from society.
Had religion a personal matter it might have disappeared from earth long ago, maybe after the few year of its appearance.
Society and whatever happens in society is test. So, consider what is disrupting your values as test for you and your family. If one keeps oneself safe from wrongs, then one is successful and if not then one would be failure.
Anyhow, I found very few people living in west complaining that obscenity and other wrongs in western society is stopping them to be good Muslim or effecting their Islamic values, rather most I met say that Muslim countries have worse Muslims when it comes to character and religious values then people who migrate from Muslim countries to west ... and that is in spite of Muslims in western countries getting exposed to non-Muslim values and obscenity of severe kind.
It shows that society is not reason for any concern, but it is individuals who get involved in wrongs and blame society (or when no one to blame then one blames Shaitan-Iblis :)
Kaam bhie yea khoob hay hazraat-e-Insaan ka
Her burayee khud karay aur naam lay Shaitan ka
Yea
Her Burayee khud karay aur naam lay Mu-ashray ka]
It is surprising that those who talk most about enforcing morality and religious duties on others on ground that it effects them, in majority do not feel any problem in leaving Muslim countries to live in non-Muslim country, or taking dollars from non-Muslims (for instance, Taliban in Afghanistan was not creating any revenues in Afghanistan, but most of their expense were coming from Americans either directly or through Saudi Arabia).
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
One should remember that Islam as state religion is very fair and takes into account religious and belief feelings of all within state. An Islamic State represents all living within state (not just Muslims or particular sect of Muslim), and thus is equally responsible for all living within state fairly, equally, and without bias towards any religion or beliefs, and thus all within Islamic state consider themselves equal citizen in every respect.
To do that, in Islam, state is not made responsible of any religious or belief matters, leaving that in the hand of individual citizens of state (as long as that religious or belief matters do not affect others’ rights within state directly) so that they can be appropriately judged on judgement day.
In Quran this aspect is clearly mentioned at many places where Allah told Prophet (SAW) to tell people that his (SAW) duty is just to pass on the message and not to ‘look over’ or watch what they do. Here are ayahs that clearly mention these aspects:
Ayah 6:104 (Yusuf Ali): "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."
[Above Ayah is what Allah is asking Prophet (SAW) to tell people ... ]
So, when Allah has stopped even Prophet (SAW) to not ‘look over’ or ‘watch over‘’what others do, how an Islamic State, society or individual can consider that as their duty to do that? ... such action by Islamic state or society is unimaginable ... and if any state is doing that (interfering with people's personal obligations towards Allah), then they are doing against order of Quran. Anything one finds anywhere that contradicts Quran is unacceptable as nothing that contradicts Quran is acceptable (for Muslims).
Just imagine, here again in Ayah 6:107, Allah is mentioning the same … telling Prophet (SAW) that if Allah wanted to, all would have been up-right Muslim, but diversity is plan of Allah … and that Allah has not made thee [Prophet (SAW) or Islam] to watch over their doings, or to dispose their affairs (here it is religious affairs or personal obligations towards Allah, as topic is about religion). So, when Allah has stopped Prophet (SAW) from watching other people's doings (religious matters) or dispose their affairs (religious obligations) then how can an Islamic state take that duty?
Ayah 6:107 (Yusuf Ali): If it had been Allah's plan, they would not have taken false gods: but We made thee not one to watch over their doings, nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.
[Ayah is what Allah is telling prophet (SAW) and to all Muslims]
Again, in ayah 6:108 Allah has told Muslims not to even revile or insult what others worship (that includes beliefs or practice of religion), as it is Allah who has made alluring (pleasing and attractive) to each person what they do (as that is part of test what individuals facing in this world) … and thus to judge what one do (again this is to do with religious obligations) is only right of Allah … as Allah told in ayah that he would tell people the truth what they were doing in this world.
Ayah 6:108 (Yusuf Ali): Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and **We**** shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.**
[Here, Allah is addressing Muslims]
Now, when it comes to a person dealing with other person, then that is not about just religion, but it is about right of others. Violating right of others is inappropriate and it is appropriate for state to deal with such violation in this world, and thus here state or society can interfere … not due to violation of a person’s religious affairs or duties, but to protect rights of other citizen within state.
[Even though, what I remember, surah al-Anam - surah 6 - was revealed in Mecca (probably a year before migration), whatever is mentioned applies on Muslims at all time.
Most ayahs in Quran had occasions of its revelation, but whatever revealed at any one time becomes applicable on all times, except when Allah replaces something of past from later revelations. What is mentioned in above ayahs never got replaced by anything new with later revelations, and hence applies on Muslims, Muslim society, and Muslim state, for all time]
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
Salam Islamic brother you shared interesting thread. It is a typical western terminology and according to them religion should not interfere in their personal matters.
"The only religion approved by God is Islam (Submission)" 3:19
Re: Is religion a personal matter?
As far as I know and understand, without going into detail and keeping things as precise as possible:
There are different aspects of Religion (when religion concerned is Islam):
1: A part of religion is personal matter. 2: A part of religion is mutual obligation. 3: A part of religion is obligations towards one that is right of others. 4: A part of religion is state mater.
Unfortunately, when people, state or society mixed up these parts and interfere, they create fitna and fisad in society and community. Their action also becomes un-Islamic and sinful, as Islam needs an environment where test of Allah is carried out without any obstruction and force from individuals, society, or state, and that human on judgement day could not claim they did something with their free will when they were forced into, or they could not say that they were forced when they got into with free will.
1: Religion that is personal matter. All ibadah (religious beliefs, rituals and duties) are personal matters and no one can (at least no one should) interfere, be it individuals, society, or state. If anyone starts interfering than that creates fitna and fisad in society and it is also against Islam.
Examples: Salaat, Saum, Haj, Zakat, or any activities that one does as part of religions or religious beliefs are personal and there is complete freedom here. One is answerable for all these only to Allah and no one else … neither anyone is Allah to make someone answerable for all these things.
2: Mutual obligation is that part of religion that it needs two or more people to get involved, and Islam forbids. Anyhow, as long as violation is under cover or not in open, then individuals involved are not answerable to society or state (would be answerable to only Allah) and no one should interfere nor people should show curiosity of finding them out … though if the violation is in open or in public, then state should interfere with punishment.
Examples: Adultery, gambling, etc ...
what happen on media fashion shows, is it not what Islam forbids?
is it not open?
it affects people's mind same as adultery do.
[QUOTE]
3: There are parts of religion that is obligation towards one that is right of others. State can force a person to fulfil obligations toward those who has rights over that person. State can only do that on principle of safeguarding rights of others on a person (not due to violation of obligation by that person).
Examples: Rights of wife, parents, children, neighbour, etc … or inheritance rights.
[Neighbour … when one sells a property or land, right of neighbour is first to purchase as long as price is competitive, and state can enforce that]
4: There is part of religion that is state matter. That is to provide law and order in the country, stop and punish crimes (crimes that are violation of others right to their property, person, life, safety, religious and belief freedom, freedom of thoughts and actions, emotion, etc). In protecting people within their area of influence from outside powers, it is right of state to declare Jihad on invaders or on those harming state and citizens of state. State can announce any punishment for violation of state laws.
Examples: Rape, murder, robbery, theft, fraud, abuses, bribery, etc … actually crimes of one individual against other, against society, or state, that society or state thinks appropriate for punishing.
Overall, in most cases, state interference on individuals’ life within state is such that it is similar for Muslims as well as non-Muslims … apart of safeguarding rights of dependents and others on individuals that Islam made obligation on Muslims (and rights of others) ... but then, if State wants to, state can make such and similar laws obligatory on non-Muslims living in Muslim society (preferably with consent). State can also make laws in similar regards with consent of people, that is not obligatory in Islam ... like restricting Jehaz, expenditure in marriage, extend of food varieties in marriage, marrying more with consent of earlier wife/wives, etc.
Society and whatever happens in society is test. So, consider what is disrupting your values as test for you and your family. If one keeps oneself safe from wrongs, then one is successful and if not then one would be failure.
[/QUOTE]
why gambbling and adultery is not a test then?
on one hand you say that state can enforce to stop gambbling and adultery but on other hand you say it is test, hence let happen everything.
why you even bothered to write such long posts? simply tell people that it is test!
[QUOTE]
Anyhow, I found very few people living in west complaining that obscenity and other wrongs in western society is stopping them to be good Muslim or effecting their Islamic values, rather most I met say that Muslim countries have worse Muslims when it comes to character and religious values then people who migrate from Muslim countries to west ... and that is in spite of Muslims in western countries getting exposed to non-Muslim values and obscenity of severe kind.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
It shows that society is not reason for any concern, but it is individuals who get involved in wrongs and blame society (or when no one to blame then one blames Shaitan-Iblis :)
[/QUOTE]
No, to strive to save Islamic values of Islamic society is responsiblity of every Muslim. If you think that it is blaming then then you are unconcerned for growth of Islamic values in Islamic Society.
[QUOTE]
Kaam bhie yea khoob hay hazraat-e-Insaan ka
Her burayee khud karay aur naam lay Shaitan ka
Yea
Her Burayee khud karay aur naam lay Mu-ashray ka]
It is surprising that those who talk most about enforcing morality and religious duties on others on ground that it effects them, in majority do not feel any problem in leaving Muslim countries to live in non-Muslim country, or taking dollars from non-Muslims (for instance, Taliban in Afghanistan was not creating any revenues in Afghanistan, but most of their expense were coming from Americans either directly or through Saudi Arabia).
[/QUOTE]
you mean those are better who openly love America? :)
Ishaq qatil se bhi maqtool se hamdardi bhi
ye bata kis se mohabbat ki jaza mangay ga
Sajda Kahliq ko bhi Iblees se yaarana bhi
Hashar main kis se aqeedat ka sila mangay ga