I am not a legal expert but logically speaking I can not understand if parliament is allowed to formulate any law they want. Looking at the arguments from government side it seems they can formulate any law with two third majority as they want. Also PPP is saying that they would have allowed presidential elections in uniform if it came through a constitutional ammendment through parliament. Going by this logic can any one explain if for example with 2/3rd majority can the parliament pass laws such as
Can they be allowed to change the procedures of election and elect a life time president or prime minister.
Can they formulate laws which discriminate one citizen of Pakistan with another on any basis. I am aware of one such law where a non muslim can not become the president of Pakistan. Isn’t this law against basic human rights.
I would like to learn from some legal experts in the forum if there is any restriction on the parliament to the extent they can formulate the laws. Is there a limit to the extent they can go…
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
I am not a legal expert but logically speaking I can not understand if parliament is allowed to formulate any law they want. Looking at the arguments from government side it seems they can formulate any law with two third majority as they want. Also PPP is saying that they would have allowed presidential elections in uniform if it came through a constitutional ammendment through parliament. Going by this logic can any one explain if for example with 2/3rd majority can the parliament pass laws such as
1) Can they be allowed to change the procedures of election and elect a life time president or prime minister.
2) Can they formulate laws which discriminate one citizen of Pakistan with another on any basis. I am aware of one such law where a non muslim can not become the president of Pakistan. Isn't this law against basic human rights.
I would like to learn from some legal experts in the forum if there is any restriction on the parliament to the extent they can formulate the laws. Is there a limit to the extent they can go....
Well, there is difference between an act of parliament (simple piece of legislation) and the constitutional amendment. What you're talking about is the constitutional amendment (ie changing the constitution), and yes that does requires 2/3 majority, and it cannot be challenge in any court.
So, answer to your question yes the parliament has the power to make laws, and it can also change the constitution as well with 2/3 majority.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
Well, there is difference between an act of parliament (simple piece of legislation) and the constitutional amendment. What you're talking about is the constitutional amendment (ie changing the constitution), and yes that does requires 2/3 majority, and it cannot be challenge in any court.
So, answer to your question yes the parliament has the power to make laws, and it can also change the constitution as well with 2/3 majority.
Yes you are right I am talking about constitutional ammendment.
My question is if there is a limit to the exent they can do it.
I gave you an example if through constituional ammendments can they appoint a life time president or prime minister. Is there a restriction on the 2/3rd majority on the extent they can make these ammendments.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
My question is if there is a limit to the exent they can do it.
I gave you an example if through constituional ammendments can they appoint a life time president or prime minister. Is there a restriction on the 2/3rd majority on the extent they can make these ammendments.
In theory yes, but Prez/Pm are not appointed but elected. So, if you're holding an elected office it cannot be for life. In the US SC judges are appointed for life, but thats not an elected office.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
In theory yes, but Prez/Pm are not appointed but elected. So, if you're holding an elected office it cannot be for life. In the US SC judges are appointed for life, but thats not an elected office.
So what you are saying is they can not appoint life time president and prime minister.
But if they make constitutional ammendments on the duration of holding the office of prime minister and president they can in theory elect life time president and prime minister.
This means in theory there is no restriction on parliament to make any constitutional ammendment.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
So what you are saying is they can not appoint life time president and prime minister.
But if they make constitutional ammendments on the duration of holding the office of prime minister and president they can in theory elect life time president and prime minister.
No, b/c PM has to be a member of National Assembly, and normally he/she is the head of a political party with most seats in the NA. Same thing with president. He is elected indirectly by provisional assemblies, senate and the NA.
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This means in theory there is no restriction on parliament to make any constitutional ammendment.
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In theory yes, in reality parliament cannot change the basic structure of the govt. For example, parliament can cut president power, or cut number of judge on the SC, but it can get rid of post of the president or the SC. All branches of govt have defined powers in the constitutional.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
Legislation can be used to discriminate against any single group of people they want. Like in the US only a US born person can run for President. You can not run for high level government office in the US if you are a naturalized citizen. In France you have to be of a certain pedigree. The french laws are more than convoluted.
Some governments have legislated that a president or prime minister must do military service in order to run. Others have rules which link to business and the like.
Secondly yes there is a limit on the legislature regarding what they can and can not do. Legislature can not invoke amendments and laws which are against the letter and spirit of the constitution. We are dealing with theory here and not practice. In theory the Supreme Court validates the legislation. If legislation is deemed illegal by the Supreme Court it can not become law. The Courts have the final say such matters.
Say Musharraf wants to become King, and his parliament invokes such legislation. The Supreme Court can rule on the matter and say that such legislation is against the letter and spirit of the constitution and thus not legal and can not be enforced. The final say on the legality of legislation is the Supreme Court.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
No. Parliament is elected for 5 years term. How can it “elect” prime minister or president beyond its own tenure? This is one of the questions being debated in SC these days.
The discrimination part is not unique to Pakistan. No person can become an American president if they aren’t born in the country. So yes, they can formulate such discriminatory laws. But keep in mind, these laws r made to target a whole set of people, not any one person in particular. Constitutional amendments that favor a single person are questionable in my opinion. It’s against the spirit of the constitution.
This should answer ur question:
(5) No amendment of the Constitution shall be called in question in any court on any ground whatsoever.
(6) For the removal of doubt, it is hereby declared that there is no limitation whatever on the power of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) to amend any of the provisions of the Constitution.
But keep in mind our constitution assumes that there is a federal democracy in the country. So in that context public pressure should mean that there r certain unwritten limits beyond which the parliament won’t go. For instance, it won’t take away ur fundamental rights and it won’t allow slavery and so on. That we have a quasi parliamentary-Presidential hybrid hotchpotch ***thing ***going on changes everything.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
1) Can they be allowed to change the procedures of election and elect a life time president or prime minister.
Well a 5-year parliament can be extended by a further 1 year, by a simple majority if an "Emergency" is declared.
Additionally, this 5-year National Assembly (and Provincial Assemblies) elected in 2002, has elected in 2003 and re-elected in 2006 Senators who will end completing their terms in 2012.
So yes there are precedents for a "5-year term assembly" to elect people for more than 5 years and a constitutional right to even extend it's own term.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
Well a 5-year parliament can be extended by a further 1 year, by a simple majority if an "Emergency" is declared.
Additionally, this 5-year National Assembly (and Provincial Assemblies) elected in 2002, has elected in 2003 and re-elected in 2006 Senators who will end completing their terms in 2012.
So yes there are precedents for a "5-year term assembly" to elect people for more than 5 years and a constitutional right to even extend it's own term.
Can they ammend the life of the aasembly through a constitutional ammendment. Say can they change it from 5 years to ten years...
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
So you are saying is there is no restriction one the parliament except public pressure…
You are saying due to some unwritten limits beyond which the parliament won’t go. But don’t you think with 17th ammendment the last parliament has transgressed these unwritten limits…
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
So you are saying is there is no restriction one the parliament except public pressure.....
You are saying due to some unwritten limits beyond which the parliament won't go. But don't you think with 17th ammendment the last parliament has transgressed these unwritten limits...
spirit of the constitution pai jan. U can insert any letters in the constitution, technically but those must not go against it's spirit, which is that of a federal democracy.
Nawaz Shareef was planning something very similar to what u r asking about here through the 15th amendment. It was shot down.
Now that we have this military-rubber stamp parliament- presidential hybrid hotchpotch, everything gets bulldozed at the altar of emperor's ambitions.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
Can they ammend the life of the aasembly through a constitutional ammendment. Say can they change it from 5 years to ten years...
Well in a 2005 Supreme Court judgement which struck down objections to the 17th Amendement and the President holding two offices the judges declared the following:-
----- The conclusion...there was almost three decades of settled law to the effect that even though there were certain salient features of the Constitution, **no constitutional amendment could be struck down by the superior judiciary as being violative of those features. The remedy lay in the political and not the judicial process. The appeal in such cases was to be made to the people not the courts. **A constitutional amendment posed a political question, which could be resolved only through the normal mechanisms of parliamentary democracy and free elections. -----
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
yes... agree with the spirit of constitution....
actually..if 342 ...MNAs and 100 senetors will unanimously join to pass a bill....against the islamic shariah..they are NOT allowed....
as the preface of Const. of pakistan is Qarardadai Maqasid..and it cannot be erased in ANY CASE....
further...all MNA or senetaors cannot pass any bill against the human rights..basic..if pass...SC will trhrow it out in the dustbin..as happened in Hasba Bill of MMA in NWFP assembly..SC ...turned down this unanimously passed bill....
discrimination..not at all...98% muslims of pakistan..cannot choose a nonmuslim president or PM...but see ..today ..more powerful is SC judge who will decide the fate of President...Justice Bhagwandas..his highness....
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
similarly..BB aws trying to ammend some powers of SC..in 1996..when allegations were made over BB by President...Laghari..it was allegation that BB tried to attck SC via parliment.....
and SC justified this over throwing and breaking of assemblies...
means that via parliment ammendment..SC powers cannot also be reduced....
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
and no law can be made aginst the spirit of const.
thats why SC case is going on...relief to one person ..Musharraf via 17 ammendement and two officers can hold ..is a against the spirit....and SC is listening this case...
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
Mind you there is a big difference between Pakistan and what is legally right. In any solid democracy any amendment to the constitution can be withdrawn by the supreme court.
However in Pakistan just the opposite is the case becaue Military governments legally put the constitution in abeyance as they have commited High Treason. Any amendments by a Military junta are null and void - in a real democracy that is. In Pakistan they are kept to keep the military happy and that is why our constitution is so pitifully enforced.
Re: Is parliament allowed to formulate any law they want
^^ agreed....
salute to our great lawyers liek sharefuddin pirzada..who every time ammend const..for the military rulers..by 270 ..270 a ..270 aa etc etc.. i think...
and no ammendment by any dictator is valid..like as forced leave of any SC judge as applied on CJ..recvently...but turned down..by 13/13 judges unanimosusly...
and yes..SC MUST have the powers to negate any ammendment against teh spirit of const..unfortunately..here a dicttor..who is under Artcle 6 ..is sentenced to death..ruled for 11 11 years..pathetic...