Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@Ghost14

I Ghost14 in my own senses admit that I am always wrong and diwana is right.

Fixed.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

Do you really want to play this game further Ghost14??

I mean really?

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@calypsodc

Irrespective of the unauthentic sources above, your knowledge about Hinduism is Zilch and that condition cannot be remedied on this discussion board. Kindly stick to your religion and its teachings. You are not qualified enough to compare religions you are neither familiar with nor interested in. If you do have anything to discuss rationally, try posting authentic sources if you find any from our holy books which are the 4 vedas and the Geeta. Direct teachings of our revered Avatars will do as well.

I brought you many sources. Try refuting these with your authentic sources.

Let me repeat here: Pakistani culture has a lot of negative effects from Hinduism and this is a fact. It is up to you if you agree with or not. Makes no difference. Nothing against Hinduism Merely a fact.

[calypsodc]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@diwana

I brought you many sources. Try refuting these with your authentic sources.

Let me repeat here: Pakistani culture has a lot of negative effects from Hinduism and this is a fact. It is up to you if you agree with or not. Makes no difference. Nothing against Hinduism Merely a fact.

That is what I am asking you sir. To understand about Islam, you consider the Quran and some hadiths as authentic. You do not post anything from any 2 bit mullah and say that it is authentic. So kindly extend us the same curtsey and use the vedas and Geeta directly as a reference. The link you have posted is the belief of somebody who is writing/written a book on Hinduism. I had not heard of this person before. So why should I accept something he says as authentic when my religious books does not accept it. He might be passing off social behavior and practices as religion.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@calypsodc

That is what I am asking you sir. To understand about Islam, you consider the Quran and some hadiths as authentic. You do not post anything from any 2 bit mullah and say that it is authentic. So kindly extend us the same curtsey and use the vedas and Geeta directly as a reference. The link you have posted is the belief of somebody who is writing/written a book on Hinduism. I had not heard of this person before. So why should I accept something he says as authentic when my religious books does not accept it. He might be passing off social behavior and practices as religion.

In Hinduism the Gotra System is based on male offspring.

Here it is even explained and justified based on the genes and Y chromosome.

Importance of Son in the Gotra System

This Gotra system helps one identify his male lineage and is passed down automatically from Father to Son. But the Gotra system does not get automatically passed down from Father to Daughter. Suppose a person with Gotra Angirasa has a Son. Now suppose the Son gets married to a girl whose father belongs to Gotra Kashyapa. The Gotra of the girl automatically is said to become Angirasa after her marriage even though her father belonged to Gotra Kashyapa.
So the rule of the Gotra system is that the Gotra of men remains the same, while the Gotra of the woman becomes the Gotra of their husband after marriage. Now suppose a person has only daughters and no sons. In that case his Gotra will end with him in that lineage because his daughters will belong to the Gotras of their husbands after their marriage!

[Science of Genetics behind the Hindu Gotra System – The Y Chromosome and the Male Lineage | HitXP by Gurudev

---

**Rig Veda, “O Agni, may we have power to kindle thee,”
**](http://www.hitxp.com/articles/veda/science-genetics-vedic-hindu-gotra-y-chromosome-male-lineage-extinction/)

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

Cast system in Hinduism also brought significant impact on Pakistani culture.

[Southie]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

What is " cast system". Are there societies where casts are not used even when called for?

[UZ]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@Southie

For some this thread is about attacking Hinduism - hence the statement no need to DEFEND Hinduism. Interesting that some posters have brought up Hinduism only in a negative light. Wonder if it is their religion or their culture that explains their proclivity to consistently portray another religion in poor light in order to feel good about their religion or culture.

Southie I didn’t mean to say that Hindu religion is bad, instead I was saying what are the things that are bad in our culture. Hindus are following their religion there is nothing wrong in it but if someone leaves their own religion and start following other religions how does it sound? Not good brother so just have an open mind and think from another perspective for example if Indians start following Christianity and stop following their own religion, it doesn’t sound right.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@Southie

For some this thread is about attacking Hinduism - hence the statement no need to DEFEND Hinduism. Interesting that some posters have brought up Hinduism only in a negative light. Wonder if it is their religion or their culture that explains their proclivity to consistently portray another religion in poor light in order to feel good about their religion or culture.

You have been cheerleading Ghost everywhere and on his posts even though he kept comparing Islam to Talibanism.

Also, you have been calling those who defend Islam “Right Wingers” , so now why so worried about Hinduism coming in to bright light?

Are you not a** fake** Secular/Atheist/Leftist just like many Hindu guppies pretend?

Sure you are. A Right Winger!

[Southie]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@UZ

Southie I didn’t mean to say that Hindu religion is bad, instead I was saying what are the things that are bad in our culture. Hindus are following their religion there is nothing wrong in it but if someone leaves their own religion and start following other religions how does it sound? Not good brother so just have an open mind and think from another perspective for example if Indians start following Christianity and stop following their own religion, it doesn’t sound right.

Dear UZ my post was not directed at you. As I have stated earlier, you are an example of a truly religious person. I respect your gentle and calm outlook. If I recall I had stated earlier “I can vouch for your gentleness and fairness”.

Cheers!

[honeybeez]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

These are completely MY views. Of course, I am a Hindu and do believe in the tenets of Hinduism. But, I am me, keeping apart my religion. And this “me” is a result of the era that I grew up in and in which I am currently living.

@diwana

Orthodox Hindus do not approve childlessness and consider it to be very inauspicious. Women without children have to face social discomfort and questioning looks from friends and relations. Newly married couple have to deal with peer pressure if they fail to produce children within a reasonable time after their marriage. Childlessness causes great hardship for both men and women in Hindu families, despite the fact that over population is a major problem of present day India. While for men it is mostly a problem of their virility and manhood for women it is the stigma of barrenness and the absence of the pleasures of motherhood. Barren women are not allowed to participate in certain rituals and on some occasions their very presence is considered inauspicious, which add to the stigma of infertility.

If I try to think of it from another way, a childless woman might be jealous of someone else’s kids. So it is probably better to keep them away to prevent that jealousy/depression.

Also, children have always been considered as a bond that strengthens marriage in all religions and cultures. Where does Hinduism come into this? The essence of having kids in a marriage is to strengthen a relationship and to provide the offspring with a safe and loved environment and to bring them up amidst human relationships…else, all of us know that marriage isnt essential if breeding is the only concern.

@diwana

A son is generally preferred because he upholds the family values and ensures its continuity. According to Gautama Sutras (28:18), if a person does not having male children, he may ask his daughter to raise a son for him. A family without a male child is considered accursed. Male children are preferred for many reasons. Financially a male child is an asset. Socially he stands for the continuity and the exalted image of the family. Spiritually he helps his parents in their afterlife, by performing their funeral rites when they die and saving them from the hell of Punnama where people without sons are believed to go. Thereafter he performs the shradda ceremonies at regular intervals to ensure their well being in the heavens. The female children are excluded from participating in funeral ceremonies and are not even allowed to visit the cremation grounds. If a couple has more than one son, the elder one and the younger one would lit the funeral pyres of their father and mother respectively.

Financially, yes - a male child was surely considered an asset. And he was/is expected to provide for the parents in their old age. You see anything wrong in this? Parents are obviously not cows that you milk them as long as you can and then sell them off to a butcher. Where does religion come into this? This is a parent-child bond that goes beyond the boundaries of religion and I see nothing wrong in it.

Females have always been known as “soft hearted” and “tender”. What is wrong again in this if they are prevented to go to the funeral grounds? Also, here are some more important factors as to why women don’t go to the funerals:

1. They need to clean the house by the time the men return from the funeral obligations. You can’t expect a neighbor to be obligated to clean your house. This is a very essential thing as dead bodies might carry germs/bacteria etc.
2. Women need to cook for all those people who are exhausted.
3. There might be young children, pregnant women, old people at home who need to be cared for.
4. The chants during a funeral and birth are different and pregnant women are not allowed to hear the chants. This is because in a funeral the chants are for the soul to leave the earth while in pregnancy we chant to welcome the soul to earth. And obviously, we dont want to send away the soul of an unborn child or make it feel unwelcome to earth.

@diwana

Hindu law books do not ignore the rights of illegitimate children. According to Gautama Sutras (28:33-34) the son of an unmarried damsel, the son of a pregnant bride, the son of a twice-married woman, the son of an appointed daughter, a son self-given, and a son bought belong to the family of their fathers. In the absence of a legitimate son or other heirs, they receive a fourth of the estate. The law books also laid down elaborate rules of inheritance for children born out of inter-caste marriages and polygamy.

Now, I dont know the authenticity of this…but since you have quoted this - I am suddenly so proud of my religion. I’ve never appreciated this word “illegitimate” for a kid. A kid is the most innocent thing. Blaming a kid as illegitimate for the parents wrong-doing is wrong. And if they are indeed entitled to 1/4th inheritance, it is so much better than shunning the kid out of the society and making it feel guilty through its life.

@diwana

In many families girl children are subjected to gender bias. Having too many girls in a family is considered a great financial burden since the parents have to pay large dowries for their marriages. The girls have no right of inheritance. The ancestral property of the family invariably goes to the male children. Parents have the right to distribute their own wealth (swarjitam) to their daughters. But generally they do not do so unless they do not have male children. After marriage a girl child becomes the sole property of her husband and cannot stay with her parents however strong might have been their relationship. While the birth of a son is still welcome in almost every Hindu family, now a days the birth of baby girl is also welcomed by many educated parents, who consider it as an auspicious sign, as if a goddess is born in their house.

There is a concept of “sthreedhan”. This includes the jewelry and property of the mother which is given only to a daughter. Also, all gifts given to the bride during her wedding are also hers to keep and she is not excepted to return any of them to her parents or in-laws. This is her social security.

I’ve never heard the word “property” in any of my religious books. I’ve heard that a woman is an “ardh-aangani” or half of the man’s body.

@diwana

Hindus are very possessive about their children and spend a great deal of their time and energy in bringing them up. Because of orthodox sentiments and moral values, the parents are always concerned about their children’s welfare and upbringing and expect them not to bring a bad name to themselves or to their families. Compared to the western societies, the Hindus are sentimentally and emotionally more attached to their children and experience a greater warmth and intimacy in their relationships. The bond between the parents and children remains intact even after the children grow up and get married.

Again, I see nothing wrong in these statements, and am sure this is true of all religions. I hope this sentiment does not change ever.

@diwana

In a Hindu family it is an obligatory religious duty of the sons to look after their aged parents and provide them with decent means of living. Many do so. But like in other societies, aged people are increasingly suffering from problems of alienation, isolation and their children’s indifference and neglect. Old age homes which were non existent a few decades ago are now coming up in many parts of India.

This is surely a religious ruling and again I think it is a real good thing and I would never want it to change.

@diwana

Hindu family system is undergoing radical transformation. But a great majority of Hindu families still consider their children as products of their past deeds (purvajanma sukrutam). If a child strays and brings bad name they blame it upon themselves and their previous karma.

You see anything wrong in this? Any kind of an incentive to make you do good deeds/karma is good in my opinion.

@diwana

The following rites are associated with the birth of a child:

1. Rites performed before the birth of an individual, invoking gods to make a woman of the household conceive.

2. Rites performed during the third month of pregnancy invoking gods for the birth of a male child. (Hindu women please take note. The Aryans were chauvinistic and wanted more male children!)

3. Rites performed at the time of the birth of a child.

4. Rites performed at the time of name giving ceremony.

5. Rites performed six months after the birth of the child.

6. The hair cutting ceremony.

7. Rites performed at the time of “upanayana” to make the individual a “dvija” or twice born".

These are all prayers conducted for the well being of a child. All these ceremonies end with “anna-daanam” or feeding the poor. If these are followed regularly and religiously, no poor person would ever go hungry any day of the year.

@diwana

Hinduism and Children

](http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_children.asp)

@diwana

Though sons have been considered important in hindu culture, but there are ample alternatives. If a person does not have a biological son, an adopted son would do just as well (it is common to adopt a close relative’s son). The responsibility of the last rights can also be completed by the son of the daughter. In absense of any issue at all, a brother’s son could administer the last rights.

In earlier days, there was no restriction like ‘we two, our two’. People had many sons and daughters, so it was hardly a problem. There was no restriction about number of wives. In dire cases,** ‘niyoga’ (insemination by a designated relative or person) was permitted.**

Niyoga is not Mandatory in Hinduism if one is childless. The first option is “adoption”. If they don’t have anybody to adopt then people go in for this method. This is again a very progressive thought I must say. What is wrong if a couple wants kids? Why should they be deprived of the joy of being parents. And this is not adultery…this is a case where both the partners agree to this.

@diwana

Hindus: Importance of Son, hindu culture, biological son

In Hindu family importance of son is many folds. Son is considered to be the saviour and one who will give Pinda Daan that is he will take his parents ashes to the Ganges & wash them so that they will go to heaven after their death. A son is considered to take care of his old parents and their social obligations. So son’s importance in Hindu family is very crucial. ](The role and importance of a son in a Hindu family)

A son is not considered a saviour. He is instead considered to be a “karta” or a “doer”. As a karta he is expected to perform all the funeral obligations and pray for his parents sins to be forgiven and be granted either “Swarga” or “Moksha”.

[Southie]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@diwana

You have been cheerleading Ghost everywhere and on his posts even though he kept comparing Islam to Talibanism. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETEEEN GHOST AND YOU. GHOST IS A VRRY TOLERANT AND FAIR PERSON. I DO NOT RECALL HIM CRITICIZING ISLAM. HE DOES CORRECTLY CRITICIZE CERTAIN PRACTITIONERS.
.
Also, you have been calling those who defend Islam “Right Wingers” ,
I HAVE NEVER EVRR ATTACKED ISLAM. NEVER SAID ONE BAD THING ABT ISLAM. UNLIKE YOU WHO NEVER MISSES AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE SHOTS AT HINDUISM. I HAVE CRITICIZED THE RIGHT WINGERS WHO WANT TO IMPOSE ISLAMIC GOVT. YOUR POST SADLY BUT NOT SURPRISINGLY IS DISHONEST.

so now why so worried about Hinduism coming in to bright light? Y

Are you not a** fake** Secular/Atheist/Leftist just like many Hindu guppies pretend? HERE IS AN EXAMPLE. ONE MORE SHOT - THIS TIME AT HINDUS. YOU OUGHT TO BR PROUD OF YOURSELF.

Sure you are. A Right Winger!

See my humble response in all caps.

Thank you.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@honeybeez

If I try to think of it from another way, a childless woman might be jealous of someone else’s kids. So it is probably better to keep them away to prevent that jealousy/depression.

.

So you believe that keeping this childless woman from someone else’s child is a good moral practice?

Really?

It is very callous to even think that someone who does not have the ability to have a child (which could not even be her fault) to be jealous and depressed enough that she ‘needs to be protected’ from these feelings.

Do you know how miserable childless women feel by these kind of actions by people around them?

All other points were to show, the importance of children and having a male child is considered so important that it has led to many irrational acts and Pakistanis certainly have adapted these false ideas..over a long period of time living together with Hindus.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@Southie

See my humble response in all caps.

Thank you.

The discussion is about Hinduism affecting or affected Pakistani culture.

The evidences are presented. You can say no and bring opposite evidence.

You have not done so. No need to criticize the thread when Hinduism is being discussed.

I will not discuss Ghost and his ‘tolerance and fairness’.

[Southie]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@diwana

The discussion is about Hinduism affecting or affected Pakistani culture.

The evidences are presented. You can say no and bring opposite evidence.

You have not done so. No need to criticize the thread when Hinduism is being discussed.

I will not discuss Ghost and his ‘tolerance and fairness’.

So exactly when are you going to stop obfuscationg? Or shall I say - stop being dishonest. I was critical of you taking potshots at Hindus every chance you get, while hiding behind the cover of the thread topic.

I have clearly stated to OP UZ I have no issues with her. Still you portray my post as being critical of this thread.

Just as you portrayed my criticism of right wing Fundamentalists as being critical of Islam.

Carry on

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@Southie

So exactly when are you going to stop obfuscationg? Or shall I say - stop being dishonest. I was critical of you taking potshots at Hindus every chance you get, while hiding behind the cover of the thread topic.

I have clearly stated to OP UZ I have no issues with her. Still you portray my post as being critical of this thread.

Just as you portrayed my criticism of right wing Fundamentalists as being critical of Islam.

Carry on

Can you bring the evidence that it is merely a potshot?

I am going by the topic. You can also do so.

How many threads or posts I have written against Hinduism or India in last few years?
Talking straight with evidences within the bound of topic is what I did.

Now get to work… and refute me if not agree. Just like you said to Bao Bihari.

[honeybeez]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@diwana

In Hinduism the Gotra System is based on male offspring.

Here it is even explained and justified based on the genes and Y chromosome.

Importance of Son in the Gotra System

This Gotra system helps one identify his male lineage and is passed down automatically from Father to Son. But the Gotra system does not get automatically passed down from Father to Daughter. Suppose a person with Gotra Angirasa has a Son. Now suppose the Son gets married to a girl whose father belongs to Gotra Kashyapa. The Gotra of the girl automatically is said to become Angirasa after her marriage even though her father belonged to Gotra Kashyapa.
So the rule of the Gotra system is that the Gotra of men remains the same, while the Gotra of the woman becomes the Gotra of their husband after marriage. Now suppose a person has only daughters and no sons. In that case his Gotra will end with him in that lineage because his daughters will belong to the Gotras of their husbands after their marriage!

[Science of Genetics behind the Hindu Gotra System – The Y Chromosome and the Male Lineage | HitXP by Gurudev

**Rig Veda, “O Agni, may we have power to kindle thee,”
**](http://www.hitxp.com/articles/veda/science-genetics-vedic-hindu-gotra-y-chromosome-male-lineage-extinction/)

Do you find this illogical and think its OK to marry anyone but your own siblings?

[honeybeez]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@diwana

So you believe that keeping this childless woman from someone else’s child is a good moral practice?

Really?

It is very callous to even think that someone who does not have the ability to have a child (which could not even be her fault) to be jealous and depressed enough that she ‘needs to be protected’ from these feelings.

Do you know how miserable childless women feel by these kind of actions by people around them?

All other points were to show, the importance of children and having a male child is considered so important that it has led to many irrational acts and Pakistanis certainly have adapted these false ideas..over a long period of time living together with Hindus.

I did not mean they should be banned. I said its probably a way to prevent a childless woman from unnecessary mental torture. Please dont read in between the lines.

Let me give you my own example…I have 2 healthy kids by god’s grace, but last yr I conceived triplets by chance. It was definitely not planned. But to my bad fate, I lost my pregnancy after 21 weeks. That was painful and it took me more than 4 months to just come to terms that I am not to be blamed for the loss. It was just god’s wish. During these 4 months, I just dreaded any sort of invitations from anyone. I did not want to be pitied nor advised by anyone. I just wanted to be spared from everything and let things come to normal by itself.

Now, this can be thought of in 2 ways - 1) I did not want to be troubled. 2) I wanted other mothers-to-be to be spared from the fear of losing a pregnancy especially after crossing 50% of the gestation.

People considering barren women as inauspicious is superstitious. There is no religious backing to it. But haven’t we all been taught to avoid bringing unnecessary distress to others?

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@honeybeez

Do you find this illogical and think its OK to marry anyone but your own siblings?

Which part of my post anywhere talked about approving any sibling marriage?

I presented the importance of male offspring strongly believed in Hinduism since the lineage comes only from male. The result of this belief that many wrongful acts are committed by people.

[diwana]

Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?

@honeybeez

I did not mean they should be banned. I said its probably a way to prevent a childless woman from unnecessary mental torture. Please dont read in between the lines.

Let me give you my own example…I have 2 healthy kids by god’s grace, but last yr I conceived triplets by chance. It was definitely not planned. But to my bad fate, I lost my pregnancy after 21 weeks. That was painful and** it took me more than 4 months to just come to terms that I am not to be blamed for the loss. **It was just god’s wish. During these 4 months, I just dreaded any sort of invitations from anyone. I did not want to be pitied nor advised by anyone. I just wanted to be spared from everything and let things come to normal by itself.

Now, this can be thought of in 2 ways - 1) I did not want to be troubled. 2) I wanted other mothers-to-be to be spared from the fear of losing a pregnancy especially after crossing 50% of the gestation.

People considering barren women as inauspicious is superstitious. There is no religious backing to it. But haven’t we all been taught to avoid bringing unnecessary distress to others?

First sorry to hear about your loss. May you get something much better in return.

Now, if someone is rich and has expensive car or a nice big house, that person should not give ride to someone who is not so rich or invite to his/her home someone who has small house, … just to spare other person from depression or jealousy?

Haven’t we all been taught to avoid bringing unnecessary distress to others?

Come one admit it, you have very unusual argument and just trying to support that there are people who consider childlessness as a curse and are mean to these women not even letting them come close to pregnant women or hold a newborn baby.

I a not sure why 1- you thought you would be blamed for the unfortunate loss, 2- would be in trouble, 3- wanted other mothers to be (expectant mothers) to be spared from fear of losing a pregnancy.

I am sorry, all of those thoughts are false.