Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Muzna, I will try my best to find that particular hadith I read about bangles .. infact I want to read that hadith again because another person asked me the other day where I had read it ..
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
CB the example you gave of beating up the bahu if she does not do household work IS NOT rooted in Hinduism. I doubt you will find Hindu scripture that teaches this. And that was the point I was making.
Wearing bindi appears a good example of Hindu tradition. So is bowing to elders. Maybe even Namaste.
In fact I would content Pakistanis ( esp Punjabis) and North Indians have more in common culturally than South Indian. And North Indian Hindus.
While lots of cultural aspects may be rooted in religion, athithi satkar is universal in Indoor Pak culture I believe.
Now I am confusing myself.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Southie, its just that when ever I read up a cultural thing, if we start going into the roots of it , we will find religious influence in it ..
Only for that reason I came to the conclusion that culture is created out of religion .. but then again, like with muslims , alot of things are going on in the culture that many of us class as "innovations or Biddah" which is highly discouraged in Islam but are part of the the culture. So if someone from outside Paksitan was to look at Pakistani culture they would genuinely get confused and think , oh, this is part of their culture which isnt rooted in religion !
Know what I mean?
I feel it might be the same case with other cultures, there will be some hindu's who are very religious, then there will be others who will create innovations in hinduism .. all these do ultimately reflect the culture ..
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Muzna, please can you read this in reference for the moment , regards the bangles issue . I am still looking at all my old links to get to that specific sunnah about bangles that I read, the minute I locate it I will post it here inshallah .. but until then, these are the two things I had in mind regards Henna and bangles ..:
Islam Question and Answer - Ruling on women wearing gold rings .. The later part where Hadith recorded by Abu Dawood is mentioned , is the part that needs some reading. I have seen this text in two other places and once this was part of our discussion at the local mosque as well.
The text that I am trying to locate is roughly in this following link :
Sunnat of Henna Dye - ZIKR
“A woman wished to give the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) a book (from behind a curtain), the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) withdrew his hands and said, ‘I cannot tell whether this is a male or a female’s hand.’ The woman replied, ‘It is a woman’s hand.’ The Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) replied, ‘If it is a woman’s hand then the fingers should be coloured with henna.’”
But this is incomplete as its not giving information about the exact source of this information. Also what I had read was not just about henna but also a few bangles that would differentiate a woman’s hand from a man’s. If someone else knows this text, please can you share with me? I will keep looking meanwhile..
PS: please feel free to correct me, if I have misunderstood the Islamic view on Henna and Bangles.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Monogamy practiced by a vast majority of Pakistani men comes from sub continent culture.. Moreover joint family system and family values practiced in our society are driven from sub continent culture and differ a lot from Arab culture..
P.S. I have no idea about the history of bangles and mehndi..
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Southie, its just that when ever I read up a cultural thing, if we start going into the roots of it , we will find religious influence in it ..
Only for that reason I came to the conclusion that culture is created out of religion .. but then again, like with muslims , alot of things are going on in the culture that many of us class as "innovations or Biddah" which is highly discouraged in Islam but are part of the the culture. So if someone from outside Paksitan was to look at Pakistani culture they would genuinely get confused and think , oh, this is part of their culture which isnt rooted in religion !
Know what I mean? I feel it might be the same case with other cultures, there will be some hindu's who are very religious, then there will be others who will create innovations in hinduism .. all these do ultimately reflect the culture ..
So, you mean to say that Islam does not have any Arab cultural things embedded within itself? The most famous one is the point of wearing a black burqa. Many say its Arab culture while many argue that it is Islamic. Hasn't the opinion been divided always?
Is it really possible to separate religion and culture? Don't both go hand in hand depending on the area where they have originated?
As long as a particular custom is not a threat to the society in general, why can't we just leave it as an individual's choice? Is God going to look at my face and see if I wear a bindi or not or is he going to look at my nature and behaviour and intention? A bindi originally was intended for the society to know that a woman was married. Now, what if I wear a bindi and still flirt around? While on the other hand, I don't wear a bindi but I am extremely loyal to my husband and do all my duties as a wife. What am I going to be rewarded for - Culture/custom/religion/morals and ethics?
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Honey, you have taken my post in a completely wrong sense! Islam does have arabic cultural things embedded in it , because thats where it came from. If you read my previous posts in the thread, you will read in several places where I wrote, that when one follows a tradition that goes against any concept of Islam. That tradition should not be followed.
There are different layers in a society. What Religion dictates is the ultimate ball park. Its the key layer.
After that we have people who are very religious, some not very religious.
What an individual chooses to do or follow, is something that is their personal choice and will be held accountable directly to God. But that does not amend or change the actual code of the religion which is the ball park ..
Comparing one aspect of religion with another aspect of it, is wrong on so many levels. Someone who does parda but doesnt pray. Someone who prays but doesnt do parda. We are nobody to judge that individual. What we can do is that remind and encourage each other of fulfillling the values where we fall short. But where it all goes wrong is when people refuse to acknowledge the existence of religious values or want to change it or deny it its due place in Society.
I do not do parda, but I cannot deny that Parda is a must in Islam. A woman who does parda has full right to remind and encourage me to do so. I cannot go about saying , oh I am a much more brilliant human being then her coz even though i dont do parda but I have really good akhlak and I do so much charity and etc etc .. That is just wrong.
When it comes to culture, we must be careful of what we practice. because we dont want to encourage wrong practices due to our lack of knowledge. We also dont want to make common practice what goes against the religion. By doing this we are not disrespecting other religions, but only upholding our values.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Thanks CB....I've skimmed through the first link and understand what you are referring to. I'll read thoroughly and comment later tonight from home.
About the henna......again, I believe that it still comes down to culture and not religion because the roots of henna application date to pre-Islamic times.....but I'll be more thorough and then comment in detail later.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
There is pardah/purdah system in Hindustani Hindu women, very much prevalent in entire UP came thorough Islam where women wears Burqa otherwise there was no Purdah in Hindus
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Islam does have Arab cultural flavor which is considered acceptable.
But it is not considered acceptable to adapt any culture which is based on other religion.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
nice post
especially about the treatment of women ... something really needs to change there ...but it is also true that these days more and more muslims are moving away from thinking of the bahu/wife as naukrani and treating her more as an equal and as an insan ... maybe im wrong but that's how i feel ...ppl are more appreciative and encouraging to their wives and bahus when they look after the home...i think more and more ppl in todays world are aware that it isnt her duty but there are still some who choose to live "pichli sadi mein" :p
ppl start think there is a problem with our religion when in fact its the culture and I am not even sure if hindu religion propagates
All Cultures are rooted in a religion. Religious values dictate a culture. Good or bad depends on how the people of the land understand their religion.
Yes I agree with UZ, majority of the Pakistani culture copies Hindu culture which in turn is rooted in hinduism. When a hindu is following a ritual, he isnt doing anything wrong at all. He is respectfully following what his religion teaches him. We respect him for that.
But when a muslim claims to follow Islam but acknowledges innovations in Islam that might have been taken from another culture .. no matter how trivial they are , that is not something to be very proud of! We dont take Islam as just a religion, we completely see it as a code of life. As a system, rather then a religion. Islam set us free of so many unnecessary rituals and bindings and our culture should definitely reflect that .. but unfortunately it doesnt !!!
For example, Islam tells us marriage is a simple occasion where Nikkah and Walima are the only two functions acknowledged. Rest is all not needed. Muslims dont have to throw money and resources away on expensive mendi's and tail rasams and what ever .. but muslims do it, learning more and more from the hindu culture
Another example: Islam gives women immense respect. As a wife, she can very well refuse to take any responsibility for the housework. If her husband can afford, she can ask for a maid to conduct all household activity. In Indian culture, a bahu is thrashed if she refuses to cook and clean. Its considered her key responsibility. Why then should a muslim household bind themselves to a culture that goes agaisnt their own religion? Islam clearly tells a husband that he should be grateful to his wife if she looks after his home and household work. Its not "common sense" that she steps up, its her free will whether she wants to do it or not. Its not her duty , nor her responsibility to do so. She does it out of free will and love for her husband.
In essence, its ok to pick up certain cultural traditions if they dont go against your very own religion. But letting a culture take over your own culture specifically when majority things go against your religion, tells me one is a confused nation who have no idea what they are following !
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
I appreciate this rule/idea very much.
How ever I wont tell that to my wife 
However^2 I would most certainly teach my daughter that. 
PS: Good Morning Ms Beryani 
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
:cb:
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
I do think we've borrowed a lot of our customs from India
BUT
Aren't they regional customs? I don't think its just Hindus that celebrate mehndis, mayuns, etc. Even Arabs have mehndis but they call them Hennas.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
I do think we've borrowed a lot of our customs from India
BUT
Aren't they regional customs? I don't think its just Hindus that celebrate mehndis, mayuns, etc. Even Arabs have mehndis but they call them Hennas.
but arabs dont celebrate it ...like a mehendi function is held in indians/pakistanis
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
but arabs dont celebrate it ...like a mehendi function is held in indians/pakistanis
They do...they have a party, they dance and do the whole thing. We call it a mehndi and they call it a Henna...different names for the same thing.
The only difference is that we wear shalwar kameez, play bhangra and have a dhol. They wear their own clothes, have Arab music and just keep dancing.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
There is a lot of hypocrisy in looking down on some aspects Desi culture but not others. For example, how many of you would be okay with your husband having a second wife if he could afford it? Probably not a lot. Your aversion comes from Christian and Hindu cultures.
Islam is a religion that promotes Arab culture and in Arab culture polygyny is acceptable. And don't give me the verse about "no man being able to treat his wives equally". If you look at the context of the verse, all that refers to is to treat your 20 year old wife the same way as your 40 year old wife, i.e. spend time with both.
I personally like some of our traditions. Yes it is a different culture but guess what, all Islam does is promote Arab culture and who's to say that Arab culture is superior? We look down on people who act like Westerners, why should we exalt those who act like Arabs?
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
If Islam promoted Arab culture, the early Muslims of Arabia wouldn't have had to flee to Ethiopia to save themselves from getting killed. Just saying...
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
Islam only has a little 'flavor' of arabian culture like I said above.
Otherwise, it has all the relaxations to accept other cultures, as long as the basics and essentials are satisfied.
Re: Is Pakistani culture dominated by Hindu religion?
If Islam promoted Arab culture, the early Muslims of Arabia wouldn't have had to flee to Ethiopia to save themselves from getting killed. Just saying...
Because they couldn't possibly have fled for religious reasons right? Kingdoms and countries were defined by religions in those times. Going against Arab Paganism would have been an offense.
When I said it promotes Arab culture, I meant that many practices were influenced by the social norms of 6th century Semites, just like Judaism. We are not Semites. Our ancestors were not Semites. We had thousands of years of culture before Islam ever existed. Obviously, many of our traditions were incorporated into Hinduism, just like many Arab practices were incorporated into Islam.