Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
To Allah (SWT) belongs all possible paths, but man chooses one of them. If something happens it is the Will of Allah (SWT) because it happened and nothing can happen without His Will (Permission), this is not to be confused with His Law (Legislative), these are what He has set in place for us to follow through the mechanisms of our own choice.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
lets see now. you say if something happens, that is as per God's will. hence, our choices are God's will too. doesn't make a lot of sense yet.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
Should we choose evil He will Enable it and should we choose good He will Enable it - for nothing can occur except that He enables it.
You see this triangle … If each ball is considered the path of choices that a person can take, each path is Known by God, because God Sees the Whole triangle of our life’s choices. The ultimate destiny of each ball is to fall in to the pockets below and that is destined for them no matter which path they take they will all end up there.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
but doesn't God know what exact path a person would end up taking? yes? then, where is the free will?
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
The path taken by a person is chosen by the person and God Wills it to happen. There is no interference by God, He has Knowledge of it. I already told you that you cannot apply your temporal rules on God for Him past and future is the same.
For example as we make our choices God Sees the results because the future is not a barrier for Him, likewise before we make our choices He Sees that too. What is your problem with this?
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
it seems to me you are just avoiding the question - first with words, and now with claims that God is beyond the rules of time. whose will is a certain choice - God's or the human's?
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
Peace queer
Now you are calling me a liar. I said that in depth Islamic theology states that nothing contains Allah (SWT) not even time. Time is a creation of Allah (SWT). Attributes established in Islam of Allah (SWT) include The First and The Last ... It is no miracle that we conclude that past present and future are no different for Him so if you don't like that explanation it is your denial - not mine. Thanks
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
does it mean that within a human's sphere of influence, God doesn't already know what man's actions will be? if He does, then it is pre-decided, isnt it? and if He doesn't, then God doesn't exactly know everything. both don't make sense with the usual notion of God's nature of being all-knowing.
Let me give you an example: an engineer builds a bridge, and he estimates the life of the bridge to be 60 years. Now this estimate is based on the design of the bridge, the materials used in construction, the estimated traffic and load on it in the coming years, the weather pattern (i.e., rain, wind, storms, ice, floodwaters etc.), the climate, etc. In reality if the traffic is heavier than anticipated, or there are more storms than usual, or unanticipated climatic changes occur, or unusual number of floods that result in corrosion, or even a runaway ship collides with the bridge.. all of these factors may combine to reduce the life of the bridge to be 50 years instead of the estimated 60. This is because the engineer could not have foreseen all these events occurring in the future. If he had known about and been able to factor in all the number of variables in his estimate, he would be able to precisely predict when the bridge would fail.
The same concept applies to life and pre-destiny, with the difference that God's knowledge is perfect. He knows what's in our hearts, He knows all our tendencies, our genetic disposition, our state of mind, what future events will influence our decision making, etc. etc. Hence he knows exactly what life choices and events will affect our our life expectancy, and when we will die. And he knows this about each and every one of us, and every object living or non-living in the universe. As an example, if I were to die as a victim of an attempted robbery, then Allah knows what events will lead me to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and what events will cause the robber to be at the same place and fire the bullet.
This in no way means everything is pre-destined. We have been given free choice to make our decisions.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
Very Articulate, I am really impressed.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
okay here's how i'v come to understand it. you are a fish in a pond and the choices you have is the water around you... thus the choices you can make have been predestined because they are limited to your human ability. Allah does not make you do something cz that's where freewill comes in but He knows what will you choose as He is All-knowledgeable. Then the things that happen to you and the situations you get into are also pre-destined - how do you react to them is up to you.
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
^ Exactly - the contained pond is the destiny and the free movement within it is the free choice given to us ...
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
Du'a al-Qunut: * *
"Allahumma Ihdeni Fiman Hadayt, Wa A’feni Fiman A’fayt, Watawallani Fiman Tawallayt, Wabarek li Fima A’atayt, Waqeni Sharra Ma Qadayt, Fainaka Taqdi WalaYuqda 'Alayk, Wainnahu La Yadhilu Man Walayt, Tabarakta Rabbana Wat’alayt.”
** **
اللهم اهدني فيمن هديت، وعا فني فيمن عا فيت، و تولني فيمن توليت، وبارك لي فيما أعطيت، وقني شر ما قضيت، فإنك تقضي ولا يقضى عليك، وإنه لا يذل من واليت، تباركت ربنا وتعاليت.
** **
Approximate meaning: “O Allah, guide me among those whom You have guided. Grant me safety among those whom You have granted safety. Take me into Your charge among those whom You have taken into Your charge. Bless me in what You have given me. Protect me from whatever EVIL that You have decreed, for You decree and nothing is decreed for You. And there is no humiliation for whom You take as a ward. Blessed and exalted are You, our Lord.”
Peace,
In re 2 "FREE WILL & PREDESTINATION" (القضاء والقدر) (مسيّر/مخيّر) i never did worrit my head about that once i understood the above du'a... especially where it mentions MY WILLINGNESS 2 beg ALLAH 2 change what He has DECREED for ME.
Peace again,
Aslem, taslam
It's by their posts that ye shall know them!
Re: Is our destiny pre decided?
Today, I was reading/while updating in my group, tafseer of Ayat No. 26 27 from Surah Al Baqarah. I came to this beautiful tafseer, let me share some points hope this will enlight more:
To God all His creation has some special meaning appropriate to itself and some of what we consider the lowest creatures have wonderful aptitudes, in other words those who deliberately shut their eyes to God's Signs, and their Penalty is attributed to God, the Cause of all caueses. But lest there should be misunderstanding, it is immediately added that the stumbling and offence only occur as the result of the sinner's own choice of the wrong course. "Forsaking the path" is denied breaking solemn covenants whih the sinner's own soul had ratified, causing division among mankind, who were meant to be one brotherhood, and doing as much mischief as possible in the life of this earth, for the life beyond will be on another plane, where no rope will be given to evil.
The mention of the Covenant has a particular and general signification, The particular one has reference to the Jewish tradition that a Covenant was entered into with "Father Abraham" that in return for Gods's favours the seed of Abraham would serve God faithfully. But as a matter of fact a great part of Abraham's progency were in constant spiritual rebellion against God, as is testified by their own Prophets and Preachers and by Muhammad Mustafa. The general significationis that a similar Covenant is metaphorically entered into by every creature of God: for God's loving care, we at least owe Him the fullest gratitude and wiling obedience. The sinner, before he darkens his own conscience, knows this, and yet he not only "forsakes the path" but resists the Grace of God which comes to save him. That is why his case becomes hopeless. But the loss is his own. He cannot spoil God's design. The good man is glad to retrace his steps from any lapses of which he may have been guilty, and in his case God's Message reclaims him with complete understanding.