Is not it true that----
Excess of everything is bad.
Moderation in every field of life is good.
what is your opinion?
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agreed.
but then artists wudnt be creating anything if didnt they feel extremely.this principle wud also apply to inventors i think.
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^ now you are going to another extreme :)
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a hadeeth says "khayr ulumoor awsatuha" meaning "the best tasks r the moderate ones"....
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^ concept of taqdeer also supports this
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^^^
I believe, if we do not understand anything ourselves, due to the reason, that if we are not blessed by God, then we must for sure try to ask about that thing with someone else having better intelligence than us, or the one who is more educated than us in that area of question. Why are not we feel thankful to GOD, for the intelligence he has blessed us, for the zamier he has blessed us. Are not we muslims blessed?, thanks to God. Why we bring ahadeez prior to deciding wether we have difference of opinion or not.
Why I am saying, this because not **every body has **full knowledge of ahadeez , also not everyone in this world believes, the way muslims believe. So many such people would never ever believe in what ever you dipict as hadeez. who has time to do so much research.?wether you written right or--- You may have greater knowledge about ahadeez; but why shall one let you take over on his her intelligence. Because every individual is answerable to GOD himself or herself. **Anyone else can not **DOHSOFY his believe, since he is not answerable for others on the day of judgement.
Please please lets discuss things in logical manner. If we reach to some difference of opinion then fine before closing the argument. you can prove it with ahadeez.
This way our brain power to understand ourself would finished. Mohtag hou kar rah jaein ga. **
**Like that weak student who is unable to understand, he just memorizes things without understanding, due to the fact that he is not blessed with logical mind..
Artist also tries perfection but can he do???
Only God is the artist who is the perfect oe according to all religions.
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*^^
yes lets discuss things logically
*
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Your post above wasn't very logica regarding inventions and artistic achievments. comon,,,, being moderate in using your thinking powers..... that wasn't the answer the poor fellow was asking.... There is no limit on thinking, the only limit on thinkng is the one you put on yourself by wrongly believing in religious decrees, for example you will burn in hell if you question the credibility of the prophet or the holy book. See, someone did a good job by coming up with an idea to keep you from asking questions about religious athorities by scaring you to death with the decrees.
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zamaroudzenith tends to discuss many issues at once,i chose to respond simply coz i was waiting for someone else to start,like u for instance.
i personally like to handle one issue at a time,in zeniths current post and the post abt marriage to 4 women n doing justice,again there r many issues.
ok
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regarding inventions and artistic achievments
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i am a simpleton
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comon,,,, being moderate in using your thinking powers.....
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????????
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that wasn't the answer the poor fellow was asking
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i can share my thoughts,discuss but not answer.wat he chooses to accept from me or anyone else is answer for him.
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There is no limit on thinking,
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agreed
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the only limit on thinkng is the one you put on yourself by wrongly believing in religious decrees,
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u used the word "wrongly"
*first of all do not assume i am wrong *without knowing my reasons.
**assumptions like the above show an unfit, pre-made up mind not to mention the fact that it disqualifies the one assuming from the discussion bcoz wen one assumes then there is no room for discussion.
keeping this in mind ur conclusion ,based on ur own assumption is renderd null and void but i will comment nevertheless.
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for example you will burn in hell if you question the credibility of the prophet or the holy book. See, someone did a good job by coming up with an idea to keep you from asking questions about religious athorities by scaring you to death with the decrees.
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**for the believer no miracle is necessary,for the non believer no miracle is enough.
**
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for example you will burn in hell if you question the credibility of the prophet or the holy book.
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i have read nor heard any such thing in my religion.
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someone did a good job by coming up with an idea to keep you from asking questions about religious athorities by scaring you to death with the decrees.
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**u prolly grew up calling ur father dad but i doubt u asked ur mommy to show u the birth certificate or asked ur mom n dad to get tested for paternity,she said she was ur mom and that guy is ur dad n u took in on faith like we all do.
**there is a lot in my religion which i understand,which i admire,which i believe to be superior to all religions in the world, so i take other things which i dont understand or havent seen[like hell] on faith.
essentially all thought on religion stems from one basic thought only,do u believe that there is a god or not.do u believe there is a god?
as i recall u know my opinion abt discussing issues of religion on gs.u wud b better off discussing it solo with lajawwab .it gets messy ,crude, illogical, disrespectful wen being discussed publiclly with every tom dick n harriette jumping in just to have his/her say and penting out his/her frustration.
i wait in anticipation for ur reply,i will b ecstatic to have it, u make my day,man u rock.
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i personally like to handle one issue at a time,in zeniths current post and the post abt marriage to 4 women n doing justice,again there r many issues.
ok
i am a simpleton
????????
i can share my thoughts,discuss but not answer.wat he chooses to accept from me or anyone else is answer for him.
agreed
u used the word "wrongly"
first of all do not assume i am wrong without knowing my reasons. assumptions like the above show an unfit, pre-made up mind not to mention the fact that it disqualifies the one assuming from the discussion bcoz wen one assumes then there is no room for discussion.
keeping this in mind ur conclusion ,based on ur own assumption is renderd null and void but i will comment nevertheless.
for the believer no miracle is necessary,for the non believer no miracle is enough.
i have read nor heard any such thing in my religion.
u prolly grew up calling ur father dad but i doubt u asked ur mommy to show u the birth certificate or asked ur mom n dad to get tested for paternity,she said she was ur mom and that guy is ur dad n u took in on faith like we all do.
there is a lot in my religion which i understand,which i admire,which i believe to be superior to all religions in the world, so i take other things which i dont understand or havent seen[like hell] on faith.
essentially all thought on religion stems from one basic thought only,do u believe that there is a god or not.do u believe there is a god? as i recall u know my opinion abt discussing issues of religion on gs.u wud b better off discussing it solo with lajawwab .it gets messy ,crude, illogical, disrespectful wen being discussed publiclly with every tom dick n harriette jumping in just to have his/her say and penting out his/her frustration.
i wait in anticipation for ur reply,i will b ecstatic to have it, u make my day,man u rock.
"If God did not exist there was a need to create one"
Humans are intellegent creatures and have the ability to create many things then why not God.
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fair n rational enuff.but my question was ''do u believe there is a god''.
the question of creation of man by god or god by man wud have come later on.
but lets go ahead on wat u have stated.
why do u think there is a need to create god? define the need as u see it,we will continue from that point onwards.
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but lets go ahead on wat u have stated.
why do u think there is a need to create god? define the need as u see it,we will continue from that point onwards.
Well, man concieved God as something to which man can turn to when helpless and scared and probably created by some more intellegent men than the others to controll the lesser intellegent lot. There dont seem to be a God as we imagine today who will punish you for your wrong doings and reward you for your good actions.
I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence.
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but lets go ahead on wat u have stated.
why do u think there is a need to create god? define the need as u see it,we will continue from that point onwards.
There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.
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but lets go ahead on wat u have stated.
why do u think there is a need to create god? define the need as u see it,we will continue from that point onwards.
Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death.... Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look round for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the Mullahs in all these centuries have made it.
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yes the need to feel secure.very correct.
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and probably created by some more intellegent men than the others to controll the lesser intellegent lot.
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need is inherent in us,wat we do we do with the solution is not our concern, we will keep our focus upon the existence of god.
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There dont seem to be a God as we imagine today who will punish you for your wrong doings and reward you for your good actions.
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**some people wud punish evildoers with death,others like me wud just cut off their hands n feet n keep them alive so they can see n feel n suffer.
but the reward n punishment again is dependent upon the teachings of religion;for example as muslims we r taught that there is heaven n hell and evildoers will b punished in the hereafter,since we believe this we can be satisfied with the belief that god will pass judgement later if not here,in the world.
punishment is also a state of mind,mental torment is sometimes the worst of all,and thats a realm into which we cannot penetrate so we dont know,for example, either one of us cud be in that state of mental anguish which itself is punishment.
if every man n woman were punished immediately infront of our eyes then again it wud render religion useless bcoz there will be no concept of conscience ,we all b slaves of fear,not unlike robots,who simply follow the orders of religion.it wud also eradicate the thought process into which u n i r engaged right now bcoz then there will b solid proof for the existence of god and no room for debate.
**
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I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence.
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**let us review the need for god once again.u n i r comfortable n have computer systems and enuff leisure time to discuss while thousands die in the world bcoz they dont have food.the need declares that god b just,be a balanced entity,be perfect ,but wat abt those innocents who die from hunger,wats their crime?...........their need is perhaps more complex yet simpler bcoz they need to believe that there is something after this.as for punishment i have answered above,it wud prove the existence n stop thought.
**
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And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence.
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if there is a god,if he will reward in the afterlife,why wud he reward those who did not believe in him.i wud stop being friends with mr x if disregarded my existence and completely ignored me after i had been a friend to him .if pathetic individuals like us can have this much vanity,then why cant god be angry at those who didnt believe in him.
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*i hope my example doesnt deviate the discussion *
**wat u have said,the opposite is true in form of muslim suicide bombers,since he believes in those 'myths' so much that he is willing to end his life.this reward in the hereafter spurred the crusades and the jihads both and is a powerful force in itself.
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Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.
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even rational opinions incite rages n quarells.one doctor disputing with the other,darwins theory facing acception n rejection at the same time,etc.man is egotistical by nature,evryone believes that his own self is the most correct n justified.this point is not exclusive to religion.
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even rational opinions incite rages n quarells.one doctor disputing with the other,darwins theory facing acception n rejection at the same time,etc.man is egotistical by nature,evryone believes that his own self is the most correct n justified.this point is not exclusive to religion.
Your argument is actually in support of mine... suicide bombers and crusades and arab invasions of Africa and India were the cause of death of millions and can not be condoned in any circumstances. so these myths did prove to be disastrous for mankind. Althogh I do think that suicide bombers these days are a little different, compare to Mulsim invasions and the crusades. These suicide bombers are a Re-action to Evil Actions of suppressers. All these suicide bombers have to say is that they are fighting for thier rights and people who would remain would benefit from thier sacrifice, but it is wrong for them to believe that they would get a place in heaven by dying this way.
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religion has both elements of reward n punishment.
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It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes.
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the need to feel secure yes,but already discussed.
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Fear is the basis of the whole thing- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death....
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it is possible , but specifically in islam it is reward and punishment both.
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Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations.
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yes but uptil now ,as far as the concrete proof for existence of god is concerned, science has been a failure.i cud ask u to visit websites which tell us of scientific discoveries of the 2oth century,which prove some of the statements in quran for all to see but its up to u.*personally they made my belief stronger.*
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Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look round for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in,
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correct and very humane n noble , although i prefer to avoid this trial n error method and focus my efforts thru my beliefs and my religion.less chance of failure *wink wink*
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instead of the sort of place that the Mullahs in all these centuries have made it.
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forget mullahs,they have nothing to do with this discussion,most have my contempt anyways*.we r talking abt religion in a broad sense,if u drag mullahs someone will drag the church's inquiry into gay n child molesting, fornicating priests.
notice ,wether meaningless or meaningful,how calm n cool this discussion is.i hope it remains that way.*
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why point to wars by muslims only, why not the world wars as well?
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so these myths did prove to be disastrous for mankind.
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u said before that it is our own efforts guided by our hearts and i agreed. there were wars before islam,before christianity,etc.specifically for islam ,our religion tells us not to harm women children,old folks n green trees during war.
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Althogh I do think that suicide bombers these days are a little different, compare to Mulsim invasions and the crusades. These suicide bombers are a Re-action to Evil Actions of suppressers. All these suicide bombers have to say is that they are fighting for thier rights and people who would remain would benefit from thier sacrifice,
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i agree,thats very different.
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but it is wrong for them to believe that they would get a place in heaven by dying this way.
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the history of the world is filled with heroes who sacrificed their lives for their country or loved ones or beliefs.in war there r suicide missions, in which the only way to ensure the success of the strategy wud also render the possibility of survival NIL.so as far as this tactic is concerned ,its simply a tactic to counter far more superior force but* we cant change the beliefs of people can we?*