Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 6:47am

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

aap chinta nahin karen, ye kaval kuch dinon ka khel hai

P_G · January 9, 2015, 6:48am

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

azzeyat naak post faint

ps> what is kaval ?

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 6:52am

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

kaval = sirf.. aap ne pati patni to pick kar liya, shubh shubh bhi pick kar liya.. kaval kaise reh gaya? kaval jee TV per nahin suna

P_G · January 9, 2015, 6:56am

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

TV to nahi hai . baqe do lafz frds say sunay hoye thay ..or app k thread main mahool nay bhi pati patni ka matlub bataya tha

the_kaur · January 9, 2015, 10:41am

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

What percentage of Pakistani's have Urdu as mother tongue, I thought it was mostly Punjabi-Sindhi speaking nation?

Ali_Syed · January 9, 2015, 12:04pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

There are at least three or four cartoon channels in Hindi (cartoon network and nick) which are in Hindi. Most Pakistani private tv channels are showing Indian dramas and programs. This is having a big impact, younger generation is getting more comfortable with Hindi. This is the century of media and India has got a big hold over that sphere.

the_kaur · January 9, 2015, 12:09pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

But I can tell you the progress Ali, I grew up in similar circumstances, after class X then graduation books, today for me, it is far easy to read in english than to Hindi, I have to slow down while reading Godan to understand the content which is never the case while reading RR Martin.

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 12:23pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

You are right. Population-wise Urdu is at no.5

[TABLE=“class: wikitable”]

[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Language[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]2008 estimate[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]1998 census[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Areas of Predominance[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]

1
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjabi[/TH]
76,367,360
44.17%
58,433,431
44.15%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjab[/TH]

2
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Pashto[/TH]
26,692,890
15.44%
20,408,621
15.42%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa[/TH]

3
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Sindhi[/TH]
24,410,910
14.12%
18,661,571
14.10%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Rural Sindh[/TH]

4
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Saraiki[/TH]
18,019,610
10.42%
13,936,594
10.53%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Southern Punjab[/TH]

5
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urdu[/TH]
13,120,540
7.59%
10,019,576
7.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urban Sindh[/TH]

6
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochi[/TH]
6,204,540
3.59%
4,724,871
3.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochistan[/TH]

Saraiki was included with Punjabi in 1951 and 1961 census

Languages of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 12:30pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

Never seen Pakistanis developing interest in Sanskrit / Hindi poetry / literature after so much exposure to Indian media for two decades. Picking up random words (I would say Hindi vocabulary of Pakistanis would be limited to 100 words and that our children won't be using in their daily conversations. These are words they just hear on daily basis and they use it most of times for fun). We are just worried, because we don't do much for promotion of our own languages. I mean to say chor ki daRhi main tinka.

Ali_Syed · January 9, 2015, 12:33pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

Agreed, blame mostly lays on us...I don't understand why Pakistani tv channels have to show Indian programs although they had developed their own viewership. If they'll be showing the same then why shouldn't people watch the real deal?

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 12:40pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

Based on my memory, Here is the list of Shudh Hindi words I picked up from Indian media:

Namaste (I always use Assalama o Alaikum even when greeting Hindu colleagues)
Shagun / Ab-shagun (while Shagun is commonly used word in Pakistani Urdu, even Bajiya used it her family dramas. Abh-shagun is used for fun most of the times)
Chinta (Not an alien word for a Sindhi, but fikr / parwah is commonly used both in Sindhi / Urdu)
Keetanu (Most used word in ads and science related stuff -Hindi dubbed. But what Pakistani use more is Jaraseem and of course we don't have problem with the usage of germs).
Pati-Patni (Let me know if anyone referred your wife or you referred his wife as 'aap ki patni' in Pakistan). Majazi Khuda is still prevalent even after so much efforts taken by Asma Jahangir. Its never been Pati Parmeshvar for Pakistan Khatoon (as against Hindustani Maheela / Naari).

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 12:44pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

I once shared a statement by legendary actor Talat Hussain (who also worked in India as well as Hollywood). He says that 24 hours transmission is not a model for countries like Pakistan. In Europe and countries like USA, they got different time zones, so they can show 24 hours transmission. In Pakistan, its not the case. TV channels require content to fill the slot. They can't do it with Pakistani stuff for 24 hours , so they take foreign contents to fill the slot.

the_kaur · January 9, 2015, 1:09pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

muqawwee123:

You are right. Population-wise Urdu is at no.5

[TABLE=“class: wikitable”]

[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Language[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]2008 estimate[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]1998 census[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Areas of Predominance[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]

1
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjabi[/TH]
76,367,360
44.17%
58,433,431
44.15%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjab[/TH]

2
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Pashto[/TH]
26,692,890
15.44%
20,408,621
15.42%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa[/TH]

3
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Sindhi[/TH]
24,410,910
14.12%
18,661,571
14.10%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Rural Sindh[/TH]

4
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Saraiki[/TH]
18,019,610
10.42%
13,936,594
10.53%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Southern Punjab[/TH]

5
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urdu[/TH]
13,120,540
7.59%
10,019,576
7.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urban Sindh[/TH]

6
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochi[/TH]
6,204,540
3.59%
4,724,871
3.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochistan[/TH]

Saraiki was included with Punjabi in 1951 and 1961 census

Languages of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what is the status of Punjabi,Sindhi and Pashto in Pakistan?

Though my intention is not turn this into language war, but isn’t Urdu looks imposed on Pakistani like a colonial language and those who can speak this are superior?

Like we have english speaking colonial mentality in India?

waleedhbk · January 9, 2015, 1:23pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

muqawwee123:

You are right. Population-wise Urdu is at no.5

[TABLE=“class: wikitable”]

[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Language[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]2008 estimate[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]1998 census[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, colspan: 2, align: center”]Areas of Predominance[/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”][/TH]

1
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjabi[/TH]
76,367,360
44.17%
58,433,431
44.15%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Punjab[/TH]

2
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Pashto[/TH]
26,692,890
15.44%
20,408,621
15.42%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa[/TH]

3
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Sindhi[/TH]
24,410,910
14.12%
18,661,571
14.10%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Rural Sindh[/TH]

4
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Saraiki[/TH]
18,019,610
10.42%
13,936,594
10.53%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Southern Punjab[/TH]

5
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urdu[/TH]
13,120,540
7.59%
10,019,576
7.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Urban Sindh[/TH]

6
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochi[/TH]
6,204,540
3.59%
4,724,871
3.57%
[TH=“bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center”]Balochistan[/TH]

Saraiki was included with Punjabi in 1951 and 1961 census

Languages of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Punjabi rocks :aejaz:

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 1:25pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

People do think so in Pakistan. Bengalis did. Sindhis do. When it came to giving official status to Sindhi (alongwith Urdu) it was taken as imposition of Sindhi, forgetting that when they announced Urdu as national language, it was language of 7-8% population. You would be surprised to know that there some scholars from Punjab who says that Urdu is the refined Punjabi.

DAWN - Features; 07 May, 2004 - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

**Urdu as Punjab’s mother tongue

By Mushir Anwar
**
With no authoritative response coming from any quarter concerned and hardly anyone who is anybody taking notice of it, and the mischief having been set afoot taking its course to the pleasure of some who leave no opportunity to degrade the national language by raising bogeys such as the one now very much in the going that English is the language of power, it was heartening to hear Fateh Mohammad Malik snap back at the Indian Punjab chief minister’s naive, untimely and uninvited suggestion to his Pakistani counterpart to do away with Urdu as the medium of instruction in his province and replace it with Punjabi as they had done in theirs.

To give Captain Armender Singh his due, we may assume he was simply gushing forth with characteristic Vesakhi gusto and had permitted no deep thought or design to go into his good neighbourly advice, but as to his ignorance one can be sure he had no idea that Lahore, where he made this faux pas, has been, is and will remain Urdu’s qibla-e-awwal, and Punjab its first hatchery where Turks, Pathans and Persians first camped on their way to Delhi.

Mr Singh also perhaps did not know that exactly one hundred years back on February the first, 1904 this very proposal put forward by Sir Chatterjee, the vice-chancellor of Punjab University, had been rebuffed by the people of the Punjab most vociferously.

The proposal had virtually caused a storm of protest among the educated circles particularly and the lay Muslims generally. Newspaper editorials and a spate of articles articulated the absurdity of this proposal and described it a dangerous conspiracy against the cultural and political identity of the Punjab. Chatterji’s motives were questioned.

It was asked why the university platform was used to float that mischief. The protest became so loud the Lieutenant Governor of Punjab Sir Louis Dean had to come to the rescue of his vice-chancellor. The critics did not spare him even. He was asked if he would replace English with the Yorkshire dialect, as the education medium.

The March-April issue of Muqtadera’s Akhbar-e-Urdu is devoted to establishing the Punjab’s formative role in the birth and development of Urdu. It presents a weighty collection of research and opinion by eminent scholars of Urdu from the earliest period when Urdu’s origin first became a subject of discussion and debate to this present time.

A whole galaxy of names from Maulana Mohammad Hussain Azad, Sir Abdul Qadir, Munshi Mahboob Alam, Hafiz Mahmood Shirani to Drs Syed Abdullah, Jamil Jalbi, Aftab Ahmed and Anwar Sadeed, Atash Durrani, Nabi Bakhsh Baloch, Shohrat Bukhari, Sufi Tabassum, Anwaar Ahmed and other scholars appears in support.

The issue is discussed from a variety of angles to make it a very comprehensive study. It is a work of great dedication and love for the national language.

It is remarkable to note that these scholars had no inferiority complex with regard to Urdu although most of them lived and worked under British rule. In fact they regarded English as the language of mental subjugation and servility.

To return to Fateh Mohammad Malik’s reply to the Indian Punjab’s Mukh Mantri which he bases on just one month’s articles and editorials published in the ‘Paisa Akhbar’, Lahore, from February 26 to March 25 1909, and the upshot of which was that Punjabi and Urdu were basically one and the same language.

Punjabi was Urdu’s older form and Urdu its refined and developed body. Advocating the adoption of an older version in place of a developed and refined form of the language could only be a folly or a conspiracy against the Muslims.

**The real intention was that once Punjabi had been introduced as a medium of instruction, it would be heavily sanskritized to give it a scholarly look and then its Quranic script will be changed to Gurmukhi.

That would ultimately deplete Punjabi of all of its Arabic and Persian vocabulary and divest it of its Islamic identity, which the great Sufi poetry had embellished it with.
**
Once that happened the Muslims of the Punjab would slowly but certainly lose all contact with the wellsprings of their culture. The lengthy editorial of 26th February cites the unpopularity of Gurmukhi in schools in Lahore, Amritsar and even Nankana Sahib where the Punjabi branches had to be closed down due to insufficient number of students.

The reason was the introduction of Sanskrit words in the textbooks, which the Sikh children could not understand. In the 6th March editorial Paisa Akhbar argued that Gurmukhi and Punjabi were being promoted after the failure of the Nagric script to counter the popularity of Urdu.

And projecting the same line of thought the editorial of 17th March made the unabashed declaration that Urdu was the mother tongue of Punjabis and as such all advantages that one could derive from education in one’s mother tongue were being provided by Urdu.

Having been born in the Punjab, Urdu could not be a stranger in the Punjab and that was why the government had made it the official language of administrative and judicial proceedings.

This debate went on in most print media of the time including Makhzan. Allama Iqbal took position on this issue. His Tarrana-e- Milli had by then been published.

Ultimately this debate culminated in Hafiz Mohammad Shirani’s epochal book “Punjab mein Urdu” which provided the scientific basis to the strong and revolutionary claim that Urdu was the mother tongue of the Punjab, because the Punjab had mothered it.

Can Chaudhry Pervez Elahi fathom the true implications and objectives of his Indian counterpart’s suggestion? Its rejection might have been one of the factors that led the Punjab to split in two.
So Urdu may not be that powerless after all. Given its due place it can yet be harnessed to achieve cohesion down to the micro level where the Sahib and the Chaprasi live in two different worlds.

Anyways, this aspect has been discussed in various threads over last month and no one is going to agree with others point of view. There is this saying ‘Maa sab ki sanjhi hoti hai’ and I add Mother tongue sab ki sanjhi nahin hoti.

I think if they had given equal opportunities to all languages for promotion, we won’t have fear about Hindi or any other languages. The institution for promotion of Urdu (like Anjuman e Taraqi urdu, etc) are good for nothing to promote the language. Having exposure to Sindhi literature, I can say without any ambiguity that Sindhi Adabi Board and Sindh Language Authority are doing 100 times better job to promote Sindhi. At Federal level, Pakistan Academy of Letters is just wasting resources (which are obviously low) as compared to Cultural Ministry of Sindh, which come up with 100 new books / new editions of old books every year.

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 1:26pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

It got all the elements to rock :k:

muqawwee123 · January 9, 2015, 1:31pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan’s culture?

just thinking. Why don’t Azizi (Sohai Ahmed) talk same for Punjabi? Probably, he is afraid to be tagged as ‘nationalist’ and ‘traitor’.

Aceones · January 9, 2015, 8:44pm

Re: Is mixing of Hindi words with Urdu undermining Pakistan's culture?

to me, pawan is misfit, not paazeb

wesay bhi paazeb farsi lafz lagta hay, hindi nahi. pta nahi waqai farsi hay bhi ya nahi.

edit: i see that you mentioned paazeb in very next post, which was on next page, i must have read the whole read first before posting : )