This follows from a discussion NYAhmadi and I were having in World Affairs forum.
He informs me Koran is available in every language in the World, but some people be it clergy or others won’t allow it to be read.
So how Islamic is it reading Koran in say Pun jabi ?
Andhra, You are right, but what I said was that it cannot be “recited” in any other language. If that’s what you mean, then, yes. The translations are available, but Prayer (Nimaz) must be offered in Arabic, and Sorahs (chapters and sub-chapters) must be recited in Arabic when offering a Prayer (Prayers meaning Prayers that are offered 5 times a day, and not just simple meditation, such as “God Grant me the wisdom, etc.”). Arabs go back a long way keeping the hegemony of preserving the status of Arabic as the elitist language among Muslims. There are plenty of books available, specially the modern and Sofi movements in Islam, where the point to note will be that all Learned people had to be fluent in Arabic to be considered of a caliber. Such is the case today.
You are right, but what I said was that it cannot be “recited” in any other language. <<
This is weird. If it can be written down and is accepted atleast broadly as authentic,(No translation is accurate) why can't it be recited ?
Sounds a bit rascist to me.
nah, just protectionist.
Many languages are facing obsolescence due to an English dominated internet. That would be a shame.
Requiring that a Koran recital is required to be in Arabic helps to preserve Arabic from outside cultural attacks.
Because the layman doesn't understand what is in his holy book, he is at the mercy of the priest.
that's what they say about Sanskrit.
well, if the Muslims are gonna require Arabic for religious teaching, they best darn well be teaching themselves how to speak and read Arabic. It's a question of implementation - learn Arabic first, then the Koran? Or learn the Koran in Arabic first, and then learn Arabic?
Personally, the latter is incomprehensible, but apparently, that's the way it goes in some places.
that's what they say about Sanskrit.<<
Not really relevant. All the scriptures and epics were long ago translated into regional languages.
The translation of Mahabharata for instance is an epic event in my language.
Anyway Hinduism is a totally different religion.
Since some people on this forum sound like such authorities on Islam, my question is you didn't really get all this knowledge firsthand. You don't know Arabic do you ?
Well, if I was Muslim, I would say yes. But since I'm Hindu, I can't say that learning Arabic has been a priority in my life.
But there is something to be said to making sure that if a Muslim is deficient in Arabic, that he should be looking to more than one source to learn Islam.
I think what they are trying to say is. That when you pray etc it's gotta be in arabic. Obviuosly reading the Koran and not even knowing what you read is kinda pointless.
whole world uses hindu-arabic numerals
all muslims use arabic to recite quran
I understand that you guys want to show islam to be alien to its followers and for that you have to present an argument.
But,
What amazes me and I fail to understand is that how can you ask a question,
KNOW and STATE the answer and still be blind to it.
It is logical to expect you to see the obvious, especially when you have written it yourself.
Hope fully you can understand what I am reffering to, however, if a spoon feed is required, I shall be more than happy to do so, though I hope that you all have been educated as well as instructed.
[quote]
Originally posted by waqas72:
*Obviuosly reading the Koran and not even knowing what you read is kinda pointless.
*
[/quote]
you couldnt be more wrong. i used to think the same way but its not true. It is obviously best to know the meaning of the arabic but if you dont, its not pointless. Ever heard of the concept of "Sawab"?? This is the very Word of God according to Muslim belief, it was revealed in Arabic,and reading it (even if you dont understand the words) is a source of great reward and Sawab from Allah (SWT).
"Amor Fati"
Allah said in Al Qur'an which means: [we have revealed it (al-Qur'an) in the Arabic language]
It is not possible to translate the Qur'an itself, because there are verses in al Qur'an that English cannot handle, that's why some went and chose the english words or other languages that do not carry the same meaning of the Arabic word! And that caused a lot of errors in understanding Qur'an. However, what should be done, as some schoalrs did, is translate the MEANING of the verses of al-Qur'an which will be taken from the Arabic interepertation to it from the Scholars such as ibn ^Abas and Ibn ^Umar.
So translating the meanings of Al Qur'an is the best way to preserve its precious meanings.
its pretty simple andhura…
it was given to the prophet in arabic…(promised that the arabic text will never change) therfore reciting in arabic makes sense.
as far as understanding it, we have translations in numerous languages to help us know what the Holy Book is actually saying
that's what they say about Sanskrit.<<
Not really relevant. All the scriptures and epics were long ago translated into regional languages.
The translation of Mahabharata for instance is an epic event in my language
Explain to me how is that different from reciting the Quran in Arabic and then referring to translations, Volumes of explanations that are found in Urdu, Punjabee (check Gunj Shukar). Pukhto and Sindhee.
Usmaniyyaa university used to publish them in Tamil and Sanskrit.
I read the Quran in Arabic. Am not a native to the language but having read the translations and the explanations in Urdu, Persian, English, French or Pukhto do not make it any bit impossible for me to KNOW what I am reading.
I do not need to be versed in Arabic as a language to read it, recite and know what it means. Being able to do so, opens up avenues but not being able to do so does not leave me at anyone's mercy.
You are confusing not being able to understand Arabic with NOT BEING ABLE TO READ(any language) AT ALL.
Had I been illiterate, then there would be a problem. I would be at someone's mercy as i would be unable to read its meanings and explanations in any language.
So, what you seem to be looking at is not a problem with not knowing arabic, but with not being literate in any language.
Surely, you do not sing Vedic hyms in English while you pray in Mandirs in America ?
Or do you ?
Does that in way make it obsolete to recite them in Sanskrit ?
Even to present the argument shows a lack of understanding.
I can read Latin yet do not understand it however I am very much versed in the works and writings of Aristotle.
I have not mastered Russian though I can understand the complexities of War & Peace.
I do not speak Punjabi but I can understand the Heer.
Cross-Linguistic communication is not a new thing, surely an Indian should know that as second nature.
More so a Hindu should understand that having his/her original religious texts in a lexicology that resembles little in what is left of sanskrit in daily Indian life ?
[This message has been edited by SaeedAfridi (edited December 21, 2000).]
As far as reciting the Holy Quran in other languages than arabic is conserned. These translations are considered to be interpretations of the Quran, and not the holy words themselves. Therefor reciting as in talawat of Quran is to happen in arabic only.
Don't waste time, or it'll waste you @;-)
that's what they say about Sanskrit.<<
Not really relevant. All the scriptures and epics were long ago translated into
regional languages.
The translation of Mahabharata for instance is an epic event in my language
****************************************
Explain to me how is that different from reciting the Quran in Arabic and then
referring to translations<<
Well it is different in this way, no Hindu priest goes around saying that reciting Bhagavadgita in regional languages is somehow wrong, because it is the revealed word of God and God revealed it in Sanskrit.
The point is about literacy too.A punjabi farmer will easily understand what Koran is saying if he hears it in Punjabi.
Whilst we can translate and gain a better understanding, we must understand that as in the previous post, the Qura'n is the speech of Allah revealed in Arabic. If we translate it becomes a translation of the qura'n and nothing more.
And it is sometimes difficult to get the true meaning when you convert from one languge to another.
For instance.. in urdu you have Mama, Chacha, Chahchi, Khala, Khalu. In English these are simply Uncle and Aunt. Note that this was a totally unrelated example.
Arabic is a very complex language. Whilst we can get a better understanding by reading translations of the meaning of quran, the true meaning will always be in arabic.
the true meaning will always be in
arabic.<<
Hence only Arabs or those who know Arabic can know the true meaning of Koran isn't it ?
What does that make non-Arabic Muslims ?