Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
Sir Uberalles: I gotta wonder about a woman who does not recognize her great status in the religion of Islam as being the most noblest. Who knows; it seems you are a man.
:Salute:
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
It takes but one instance to contradict something that is held to be generally true. But granted, if you are concerned about abuse...then I concur. The concept does not scale well, I suppose...but what I said remains. There is but one example that we are being bashed with, and it's hardly anything to be apologetic about.
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Today, the expectation of a certain standard of human rights is higher than 1400 years ago. Times have changed and with that social mores are different.
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This is what I mean by moral relativism. Was the Prophet (pbuh) a human rights violator, then? If so, aside from the act of marriage, what abuse was he guilty of?
One doesn't need to invoke the rhetoric of rights to point out that we're simply not interested in practicing something for a whole host of reasons...
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
It's recorded in Hadith, not the Quran.
I don't think little girls renumerate on it much. Rather, it's the adults who do...
So, what are your thoughts on Ayesha's (ra) own sayings about her marriage?
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
One doesn't need to invoke the rhetoric of rights to point out that we're simply not interested in practicing something for a whole host of reasons...
Was he a violator? Like I said previously, he was a man of his time and age. Social mores were different. If anyone were to make a judgement on this perhaps we would all be rewriting history. At this point 1400 years later what he did is a strictly AMORAL matter (notice I said amoral not immoral... there is a huge difference) and I can have no judgement on it.
If a man were to do the same today, it would be a violation of human rights.
There is definately a need to invoke human rights for why we would not be interested in practising certain customs. Our standards and definition of the unalienable rights of human beings are different now. Almost all our actions concerning ourselves and relationships with other people are held up to these standards, both overtly and covertly as well as by implication.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
If a man were to do the same today, it would be a violation of human rights.
There is definately a need to invoke human rights for why we would not be interested in practising certain customs. Our standards and definition of the unalienable rights of human beings are different now. Almost all our actions concerning ourselves and relationships with other people are held up to these standards, both overtly and covertly as well as by implication.
YIKES, I guess many pedophiles out their must be converting to Islam to commit Temporary marriages based on the religous logic for pedophilia by male muslim proponents.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
Exactly why you don't understand. Only a woman like me who has been afforded to seek education, be raised to be confident and have inner strength to choose her path would know that under Islamic states and fundamentalist regurgitation being a WOMAN IN ISLAM IS SUPRESSIVE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. AFTER ALL IT'S A PATRIARCHAL THEOCRATAIC REGIME GOVERNED AND INTERPRETED BY MEN.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
There are millions of devout Muslim women who observe not just the Hijab, but pray 5 times a day, love their husbands, humble, femininely soft in nature and wise beyond their years as part of their spiritual manifestation…
They balance this spirituality with great achievements in academics and other activities which their spiritutality permits…
You on the other hand can hardly think for yourself spouting everything that is broadcast on Fox or Rush Limbaugh’s shows and absolutely nothing original from your own intellect to contribute…But it’s understandable…
You hardly have any knowledge of Islam, you hardly know any history of Islam, your sense of confidence is nothing more than brutish gurgling in support of your own preconceived notions which have neither physical, literal nor factual basis…
But I don’t blame you…Hitler once said that the simplest and naivest minds are the easiest to control with propaganda because they have no solid foundation to base thier conscience on…How do you suppose millions of good, honest and hard working Germans were turned into genocidal killers? Simple…They were simple and naive without a solid foundation and along came Hitler and gave them their conscience in the form of Nazism…Thanks to Goebbels…And Germany became a killing machine…
They were instilled with the notion that millions of innocent Jews were responsible for all the world’s woes, that they brought misery, ignorance and anti-Aryan values wherever they went and the only way to deal with them was to start opposing them…
It was slow, at first Goebbels started instilling the German people with the notion that they were the best people on earth…Aryan Nation…Then slowly he shifted his propaganda towards hating the Jews…And the Germans believed every lie every story made up about the Muslims…Many Jews got brainwashed and started working with the Germans to exterminate their own kind…They were called the Judenrat or ‘the Good Jew’ because he believed every lie that was told to him and obediently attacked his own kind…
For many Muslims, unlike the Germans, their conscience is grounded in Islam…They cannot be brainwashed…
For people like you who claim to be Muslims and yet consider Muslims as backwards, youn are like the ‘good Muslim’…Because having no foundation, you can be easily brainwashed to believe whatever you are told…
Did you know that the Khilafa was broken just about 80 years ago? Till 1924, Muslims were the dominating force on the planet with great advancements in everything from science to government…That 1,400 years straight of excellence in world leadership…
Nothing can compare, ever, to the longevity and advancements of Muslims, ever…All because the Muslims of yesteryears were people who had strong foundations in Islam…
They brainwash you into thinking Islam was spread by the sword…Then ask them, that the most densely populated Muslim countries Indonesia and Malaysia…How many swords went there? How many wars did Muslims fight there that there should be the greatest number of Muslims per area there?
So get some knowledge, some info, some background before coming here spouting nonsense from western media…Realize that you are brainwashed and incapable of thinking on your own unless you gain some knowledge…
You are not an independent thinking woman…You have been brainwashed to believe something like that…
Take a few courses in Islamic history and civilizations…I did…It will open up your mind make you think independentaly…
Right now you are saying what I can hear on Rush Limbaugh’s show…
Nothing original, just a teleprompter…
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
Lajawab DO You seriously believe in the nonsense response you directed to me which is full of bombast and a criticial lack in attempting to invalidate my arguments. Perhaps less attack and not whitewashed countering and you could have avoid the whole impotency of your keyboarding text however, you did reaffirm my statements about troglodyte thinking .
I have pointed out by your statements in this thread that you use the hadith’s and sunnah’s as support in your belief that pedophilia is permissible under your religious criteria from 1400 years ago. MARRIAGE VERSUS NO MARRIAGE. WHEN HAVING SEX WITH A LITTLE GIRL , IT DOES NOT MATTER ITS PEDOPHILIC NO MATTER HOW YOU DEFINE YOUR LOGIC to support your stance in today's 21st century is abhorrent and appalling to all who fight for human rights and against child abuse.
As for .Geobbles, not to be confused with Al Zarqawi, Ayatollah, Fundamentalist clerics right, because he was different religion. Right?
As for your purposeful invention in omitting reference to the Christian and Catholic dogma for the brutal and heinous genocide of the Jews on WW11 it soundly invalidates your argument and further supports my history of arguments and statements. Perhaps , you could start reading, YUGOSLAV AUSCHWITZ, JASENOVAC. TRY GOOGLE SEARCH ON JASENOVAC. from their it will lead you on to new awareness and new views about religous fundamentalism and it dangers.
Read it, you might know a little more than you do now and understand the socio-religious implications which existed and aided Hitler. Perhaps you could also read about General Al Husseini and muslim clerics and their involvement etc.
As for sword reference. Do some research on theocracies, theocratic expansionism and the sociological-economical impacts of their creation on developing a strong and or weak civilizations.
As for your reference to brainwash. Regarding the 17 terrorists arrested in Toronto, Canada. I read posts on this board that defended them as being solid good muslims who were devout to their faith. And because of this devoutness they were brainwashed onto the wrong path. feeling INVALIDATED yet?
As for telling me to get knowledge. Your lack of debating skill is caused by the questionable information and teachings you been afforded or not afforded . Clearly your response is impotent I conclude. . i.e Lashing out at me instead of debating the topic or failing to invalidate my statements .
And I admit some men find strong , smart women intimidating. You have made that obvious to me, perhaps this is why you think a nine year old would be a good bride and to heck the evolution of society and protecting the children from abuse. Why send her to school when she can be obedient to you. As for that Rush guy you mention, I do not reside in America so I am not sure how to comment about him but I am aware has a tv or radio show and got caught with drugs on him again at an airport the last couple of days.
while you read this, i will have already done a google on Rush. thanks for the info
and you did write the following just for clarification and amplitude:
If some parents know that their child has reached puberty at the age of nine and they wish to get her married, it is totally acceptable...
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
say something else besides "i"... are you stuck at "i"???? :)
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
somehow my post got messed up when transmitting and i had to rewrite the whole thing cause i thought I did a duplicate posting and deleted the actual one i wrote in error. ooops, dare i say it?? i made a mistake.
should prove amunition for dear Lajawab. :) :)
But it make the heart beat warmly, knowing you wanted to read more from me than a simple 'i", thank you. :)
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
LOL... a teleprompter response :)
I have pointed out by your statements in this thread that you use the hadith’s and sunnah’s as support in your belief that pedophilia is permissible under your religious criteria from 1400 years ago. MARRIAGE VERSUS NO MARRIAGE. WHEN HAVING SEX WITH A LITTLE GIRL , IT DOES NOT MATTER ITS PEDOPHILIC NO MATTER HOW YOU DEFINE YOUR LOGIC to support your stance in today's 21st century is abhorrent and appalling to all who fight for human rights and against child abuse.
As for .Geobbles, not to be confused with Al Zarqawi, Ayatollah, Fundamentalist clerics right, because he was different religion. Right?
As for your purposeful invention in omitting reference to the Christian and Catholic dogma for the brutal and heinous genocide of the Jews on WW11 it soundly invalidates your argument and further supports my history of arguments and statements. Perhaps , you could start reading, YUGOSLAV AUSCHWITZ, JASENOVAC. TRY GOOGLE SEARCH ON JASENOVAC. from their it will lead you on to new awareness and new views about religous fundamentalism and it dangers.
Read it, you might know a little more than you do now and understand the socio-religious implications which existed and aided Hitler. Perhaps you could also read about General Al Husseini and muslim clerics and their involvement etc.
As for sword reference. Do some research on theocracies, theocratic expansionism and the sociological-economical impacts of their creation on developing a strong and or weak civilizations.
As for your reference to brainwash. Regarding the 17 terrorists arrested in Toronto, Canada. I read posts on this board that defended them as being solid good muslims who were devout to their faith. And because of this devoutness they were brainwashed onto the wrong path. feeling INVALIDATED yet?
As for telling me to get knowledge. Your lack of debating skill is caused by the questionable information and teachings you been afforded or not afforded . Clearly your response is impotent I conclude. . i.e Lashing out at me instead of debating the topic or failing to invalidate my statements .
And I admit some men find strong , smart women intimidating. You have made that obvious to me, perhaps this is why you think a nine year old would be a good bride and to heck the evolution of society and protecting the children from abuse. Why send her to school when she can be obedient to you. As for that Rush guy you mention, I do not reside in America so I am not sure how to comment about him but I am aware has a tv or radio show and got caught with drugs on him again at an airport the last couple of days.
while you read this, i will have already done a google on Rush. thanks for the info
and you did write the following just for clarification and amplitude: If some parents know that their child has reached puberty at the age of nine and they wish to get her married, it is totally acceptable...
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
Marying a child is never right .
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
All the pro 9 years marriage guys, do you have spine enough to marry your daughter (if any) to 45+ male. Please raise your hands.
I am muslim and have two daughters 7 and 5 and I love them a lot. Even thinking on these lines sends a shiver down my body.
Guys what was acceptable 1400 years back is not acceptable now.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
If it's wrong today, it was wrong then. Morals must be universal, otherwise it's always easy to circumvent contemporary mores by simply dismissing them as already obsolete (by pointing out historical precedence).
Invoking changes to society is more of a functional argument, that falls outside the realm of a universalist discourse (like that of rights). I'm all for this stance, by the way. This is exactly my point of view...the contemporary problem with child marriages is that it prevents a child from being socialized normally. Hence, the abuse is not in the actual act, but what it entails.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
Oh, but what’s wrong with pedophilia? Is that not a “sexual orientation”? Perhaps they were “born” that way…how to tell?
As for the child, let us say they actually enjoy the relationship…again, I can cite an example…
← He made me ask…
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
It's called not taking the bait...or in other words, we know.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
I don't understand why you received a lengthy, lecturous and inaccurate account of Islamic history for this post. I suppose those that are part of this patriarchal theocratic regime goverened and inteprted by men don't have the answers other than to say you are brainwashed and try to brainwash you with their flawed accounts of history and religious interpretation.
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
can you point out the flawed points in the mentioned history? Please, please Please 
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
The fascist hinduvta website don’t cover that…
Re: Is it wrong for a Muslim man to marry a 9 year old in 2006?
awwwwwwwwwww 