Is it true that--------

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Shahadats have degrees! is it? the best one is in direct confrontation with the people who want to harm islam, and in this process is killed by the hands of opposition.

Shaheeds are considered as Zinda in the eyes of GOD. and in Quran there is an aayat about shouhadas.

A kind of turjuma" Shheeds are zinda, do not call them dead they all get reizq from me. Do not ask how"

Now I would ask you all can any one give a better example of shahadat

than Hussain ibne Ali and His family 100% only for the sake of islam. I wish GOD and his prophet Mohammed to keep you all away from mounafeqat and you all answer what is in your heart.

I would also ask for Shahadate ali Ibne Abi Talib:

If you consider him shaheed while he was in seijda and ibne mouljim attacked him with talwar?

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yasir (ra) and his wife sumaya (ra) purely in the way of Allah, the first martyrs of Islam....

the martyrs of Badar....

Hamza (ra), the uncle of the Prophet (saw)....

Ali (ra) was not killed when in sajdah....
u got that wrong....

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Re: Is it true that--------

Your wish been granted sokoon. :wave:

armughal answered what was in his heart. He does not even consider Ali (as) a Shaheed. Read his words, Ali (as) was killed whileyasir and his wife sumaya purely in the way of Allah were the first martyrs of Islam

oh please enlighten us. How he was ** killed ** then??

Lanat Allahey alal Kadhibeen (may Allah’s curse be upon Lairs)

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^
i wonder how u cud read what was in my heart....

and i dont know how u ever thought that i dont consider Ali (ra) a shaheed....

and it is the first time that i heard that he was killed (whats wrong with using the word when Allah uses qatal in arabic for martys including prophets) in sajdah....

u make it sound like he was attacked and died in sajdah....

he was attacked while praying but did not die on the spot....

P.S. it does not bother me the least what u think of me and my beliefs, and u can be happy to call my feelings for Ali(ra) as munafeqat or whatever, i dont care....

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dude what the hell is this thread about?
yes there are grades of shahids, but we are not allah, we can not judge any one, all the people who died for the sake of allah are mtyrys but it is not for us to say such and such person is the BEST of shahids..comon, have fear of allah
and besides, rasul of allah called hamza :razi: saiyd us shuhada, so we reserve that title for him, and hussain bin ali :razi: was a shaheed too but since that title was not given to him by rasul :saw: we do not call him syed us shuhada…dont make islam hard, it is simple, islam is just quran and sunnah…nothing more nothing less…

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Imam Ali (As) was struck on the head by a sword during prayers, but he (as) didn't pass away until 3 days later. But thats not the point here here is it? The Imams are considered 'Shaheed' unless your definition of 'shaheed' is quite different.

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Armughal,

you are really a true person, you are the first in umate sunna who dare to acknowledge, what you really want to propagate that Ali was not shaheed.

At least you are not mounafat. MOUN MAI RAM RAM BAGHAL ME CHOURE.

What, I had written above was refering to the same waqea. I never knew you would twist and turn and catch my words. Every sunni also knows this whole story of shahadate Ali. So I thought you also know it. But the question was do you think he was shaheed you answered No!

But I would like to inform you, this is how ahadeez differ between different firqas of muslims.

According to All Emamies Ali was offering prayer and ibne muljim attacked him on 19th of ramazanand he was injured and he died with the same wound on third day on 21st of Ramazan.

So now I think you would well understand why I do not want to hear or believe or pay attention on any copy paste of ahadeez until they are mutafiq ellah, between two main streams of muslims.

Anyway you could not control for long and later you did mention that ali was shaheed. Perhaps your conscience did not let you propagate wrong.

So , since you have already accepted Ali, Hasan, hussain as shaheeds then shheed zinda hai ous kou murda mat kahou (Quran says)

So asking anything with Zinda is not haram.

Of course if anyone thinks/believes Ali , Hasan, Hussain are Murda then for those it is haram to use them as wasella between them and God or prophet.

Zero1, I did not ask, who was the first shaheed. I had asked do you believe them shaheed or not?

Beside this if you only believe in everything what had happened during prophet mohammed's time then our ALL ELAHI BOOKS ON WHICH WE SHOULD HAVE EMAN are QANOON E DENI from AZAL TILL ABAD are of no good use for today's muslims, they were well in prophet's time to be used; nousobillah are useless now, only ahadeez from prophets companions would lead you well----- are you saying this.?

But as wahabies say umar said Quran is enough for muslims, so are you not contradicting him.?(R)

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^
it is shirk to ask from Ali(ra) or any other companion of the Prophet (saw) or the prophet (saw) himself....

and i dont want to put in garbage with long replies, this one line is enuff to state my view....

plus, my point was never to say that Ali (ra) was not shaheed, it is u who said that he died in sajdah, and i was just pointing out that he died later and not at that time when he was attacked in prayer....
lekin itni si baat samajhne ke liye bhee tumhein problem hai....

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It means you believe in, that shaheeds are murda; although Quran has witnessed that shaheeds are Zinda, do not call them dead.

Please do not be so much adamant; believe in AAyate Qurani;after all Ali was our forth khalifa also.

And if one should not ask anything from zindas also, then you are going to make the life of all menkind , old and siblings --------

If I find you at huge big post, and I do not dear to contact your boss, are you advising me I should not ask you ,to kindly try to get me some job, I am hungry from four nights?Is it going to be sheirk in your dictionary.

Then you are a —proud and a big-----:wave: :ahaa: :smash:-----what to say?? some other time—!!!

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^
so u want to say that u cannot dare to contact Allah????

or u think that like a 'boss' Allah is too arrogant to listen to ordinary people????

when will poeple learn tht Allah is far from such human imperfections....

when Allah says in the Quran to His prophet (saw) that tell the people to ask me and I will answer them and when He says that when someone calls me I answer his call, why do u think u need a sifarish to approach Allah????

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Ask from Allah(swt) only. If you haven't yet, then ask Him with a sincere heart, for Allah(swt) listens to all who ask Him.

Asking anyone else is pure shirk because non other is worthy.

O' Allah guide us all to the path of Siraat-al-Mustaqeem - Ameen.

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[QUOTE]
when Allah says in the Quran to His prophet (saw) that tell the people to ask me and I will answer them and when He says that when someone calls me I answer his call, why do u think u need a sifarish to approach Allah????
[/QUOTE]

Sifarish or intercession:

" Allah! There is none has the right to be worshipped but He, the Living, the Ever-lasting. Neither slumber or sleep overtakes him. His are all things in the heavens and the earth. Who is it that can intercede in His presence,** except as He permits? ** He knows what is before them and what is behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His Knowledge, except as He Wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, for He is the Most High, Most Great" (Qur'an 2:255)

"there is no intercessor except with His permission" Quran 10:3

"They shall have no authority to intercede
except for those who have made a covenant
with Allah the Beneficent." Quran 19:87

"on that day, no intercession will benefit
another except from those whom Allah the Beneficent permits, and whose word He is
pleased with." Quran 20:109-110

"and they do not intercede, except those with
His approval." Quran 21:28

"Those whom they invoke besides Allah have
no authority to intercede except for those who bear
witness to the truth." Quran 43:86

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Your definition of shierk is totally wrong. Your understanding about wasella or wasta is not clear, yet.

Firstly,If someone uses wasella or wasta than he is asking only and only from GOD using wasella of some one or through someone.

Secondly,I do not think anyone who uses wastas or wasellas thinks that middle man --the wasta or wasella is the one who answers any prayers.Please fix it in your understanding.

Thirdly,GOD is the one, who at the first place taught the mankind about wasella or wasta by making use of prophets to reach us. He did not contact us directly, though it was very much possible that he could have contacted his creations directlly. Or do you think GOD was incapable to contact his creations directly???

If you believe in as" GOD has KUN FAYA KUN characteristics" then I guess, this is because GOD wanted Hejjab(LEHAZ , ADAB) between his creation and him.

He has appointed our PESHWA prophet Mohammed. All muslims who believe in him, the way GOD wanted us to believe in him would go behind Prophet Mohammed on the day of judgement.

If you are adamant and had already decided to debate only, not discuss then, for sure, you would never be able to pick up the explanation of wasella or shierk I am giving. But if it is discussion then it is too easy to correct some ones meaning of shierk and understanding of wasella or wasta.

Mushrakeens commit shierks. Now let me tell you. Mushrakeens are those who do not believe in GOd as SORAH UL TOUHEED SAYS. They connect/associate with GOD his children (sons) or wife( marium) etc. It means they take him having all the humanly weaknesses and having all humanly bindings of relatives .

When we ask through prophet mohammed or through his neik bundas , we do not consider them as his relatives; make it also clear in your understanding please.

Actually wahabeis influence is so much that most of the muslim's brain is totally washed up and they say kissing Quran is shierk, kissing JALLI of Rowzai Rasoul is shierk. They forgot INA MAL AMALO BIN NEYAT is the ROUH of our religion. God sees our neyats when we kiss Quran, that our gratitude is for kallame elahe not the JOUSDAN of Quran. When we kiss Rouzaei Rasoul GOD knows our neyat is to pay gratitude and love to prophet mohammed, not the stones of the jalli or metal of the jalli of rouzaei Rasoul.

When we use his wasella we believe it that if prophet would ask from GOd , then God loves him so much that our prayers would be answered soon etc etc

In your opinion which sorahs are for mushrakeens?? please read them. It clearly say associating some one with GOD is sheirk.

And please correct your meaning of association, and the position GOD has given to prophet mohammed, as he(GOD) has used him as wasella or wasta for all his AHKAMATS to reach to us. At least do not belame GOD please that he did mistake to use prophets as wasellas or wastas between him and us, just in a mere little attempt to say Emamies are like christians or Jews because they use Mohammed and aale mohammed as wasta between them and GOD. That is what GOD taught us, to believe, their position in the eyes of God at first place in sorah al Ahzab. In Douroude Ibraheme.

ALL YOUR QUTATIONS OF AAYATS, WHICH YOU MEANT TO USE AGAINST WASELLAS OR WATAS ARE FOR THOSE WHO ASSOCIATE OTHERS WITH GOD AND THOSE WHO USE IDOLS AND BELIEVE IN MANY MORE GODS THAN ONE GOD ALMIGHTY. WRONGLY USED AAYATS FOR WASTA OR WASELLAS. AS THOSE WHO USED MOHAMMED AS WASELLA DO NOT ASK MOHAMMED TO GIVE HIM THIS OR THAT AT ALL. tHEY DO NOT BELIEVE PROPHET MOHAMMED IS THE ONE WHO IS GOD OR LIKE GOD, OR HIS RELATIVE AT ALL.
Wassalam