i have been wondering …is it possible that prophets…Imams…or even religoius leaders …in any case lie…mean ..iit is permissible for layman…to lie if there is danger of his life…but if the person is a imam or religous leader…then even in situation like this when his word will be taken for authority …is it permissble for him to lie …to save his life…and to ruin the eeman of many others who followed his ruling on the issue…as the case was of KHULQ e QURAN when imam hunbal refused to accept the wrong opinion of khlalifa in any case…
before we even contemplate that we have to accept the fact that they were all human beings with limited intellect at their disposal.. thus they could have been wrong .. a lot of times.. .. they necessarily didn't have to be dishonest to make mistakes.. being only human they could have made many many honest ones..
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*Originally posted by chelaramani: *
i think all this start the day when someone declares prophethood, divinity or something like that, we have to be very careful.
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Sorry, precisely what do you mean? Just trying to understand your comment, that's all.
well…what about forced lies…should they be forced to lie/or they may get scared and hide the truth to save thire lives…
actually i dont believe that prophets can lie…it is impossible…also it is impossible that an imam or religous leader should lie(hide the true belief and say the opposite) …as on thier verdict eeman of common muslims depends…so they should not lie in any circumstances…
i have raised the question because…many ppl have say that they can…whihc i coonsider as a nonsense…that is why i started the thread to get urs opinion…
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*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
**I think someone once said.
Whoever saves even one [Life] is deemed to have saved a whole world.
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**
:) "Someone" did indeed State that.
....whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, * whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind*** {Quran 5.32}
If the mukhabarat were looking for someone and an imam said "he went thata way" when in reality the imam knew the person didn't.. I think that's acceptable.
If an imam says it's haram to blow bubbles cause he's got a grudge against chewing gum.. well that might not be a good lie.
So really, I'd have to say that the imam is treated just as any other imperfect, moral human.. there are cases when lying can be acceptable. It's up to us to know when that is and not abuse it.
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*Originally posted by spoon: *
If the mukhabarat were looking for someone and an imam said "he went thata way" when in reality the imam knew the person didn't.. I think that's acceptable.
If an imam says it's haram to blow bubbles cause he's got a grudge against chewing gum.. well that might not be a good lie.
So really, I'd have to say that the imam is treated just as any other imperfect, moral human.. there are cases when lying can be acceptable. It's up to us to know when that is and not abuse it.
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well...i am just talking about religious information.....like u know it is halal....but u declare it haram under pressure.......(when u r religous leader and some will follow u r statement)......
this clears all the differences between different sects if agreed upoun......
i have been wondering ...is it possible that prophets...Imams....or even religoius leaders ......in any case lie.......mean ..iit is permissible for layman.....to lie if there is danger of his life.....but if the person is a imam or religous leader.....then even in situation like this when his word will be taken for authority ......is it permissble for him to lie ...to save his life...and to ruin the eeman of many others who followed his ruling on the issue....as the case was of KHULQ e QURAN when imam hunbal refused to accept the wrong opinion of khlalifa in any case........
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Before discussing this issue first we have to define LIE.
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*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
well...i am just talking about religious information.....like u know it is halal....but u declare it haram under pressure.......(when u r religous leader and some will follow u r statement)......
this clears all the differences between different sects if agreed upoun......
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Ah, ok.. in that case I don't think the question can really work. Afterall, this is precisely the reason there are sects (because the question can't be answered fully, that is).
Like inuit said, we'd have to define what it is to lie. To absolutely define a lie would require the knowledge of God, which we do not have. So, between humans we can take a lie to be either something that can be proven incorrect or a statement given contrary to the speaker's own belief.
To prove something false requires absolute evidence. The reason there are sects is because we do not have that. Faith should fill in for the missing evidence, but that doesn't mean everyone will get it right based on faith. Then there's the problem of faith.. if someone really believes something to be true and it can't be proven false, does that mean that person is really lying? It can, but not always by our knowledge. The one indisputable case for a lie is when it is obvious that someone is speaking against their own beliefs. Like if someone said "give the church all your money and you'll get into heaven".. that's blatant BS.
Coming back to imams.. they can't really be judged any differently than anyone else. When they are caught in a lie it is a worse offense because it involves hypocrisy and heresy. But unless the writings a sect follows can be proven forgeries, there's not much that can definitively say a sect's beliefs are lies. For imams, their words cannot be proven lies in every instance unless it is assumed that they receive divine inspiration (like the Catholic pope was supposed to).
Pretty much, the point of this rambling is that you can't really say someone's beliefs are total lies. All you can do is have faith in what you yourself believe and if you find someone that may be wrong, teach them about your faith.
