^^ you surely don't want to use this kind of language here. If you'r in the habit then you better stop now before it becomes chronic.
it is not Ok to use pirated software, it's a painfully hard process to write software, and software developers are already underpaid for it. so think about others too and buy software since you buy books dont you ? or do you steal them too ?
software piracy is a plague, and it needs to be eliminated, if you cant pay for a software there surely will be an open source alternative availablr for it go use that.
if a software is expensive then it's because the developers spents endless days and NIGHTS to design/develop and debug it for you. So pay them for their efforts.
and why is this in religion. piracy = stealing and accoring to islam stealing is sin, that explains it all
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
..... Only 370 industrial patents were issued to Arabs over the last 20 years while in South Korea alone, 16,000 were issued.
....
[/QUOTE]
Give Mullahs their Hujra, their miswaak, lota and a beautiful boy. Why do they care about this patenting stuff.
It is time to let the Mullahtic idiotics rot in their hujra. It is time to move on and work for the progress of Pakistan.
antiobl,
Ok, lets solve pakistan's problems through Islam since the last 50 something years secularism has failed time and time again.
fatalist,
According to islam :
A'isha (ra) narrated: That Buraira came (to 'A'isha) and said, "I have made a contract of emancipation with my masters for nine ounces (of gold) to be paid in yearly instalments. Therefore, I seek your help." 'A'isha said, "If your masters agree, I will pay them the sum at once and free you on condition that your Wala' (loyalty) will be for me." Buraira went to her masters, but they refused that offer. She (came back) and said, "I presented to them the offer but they refused, unless the Wala' (loyalty) was for them." A'isha (ra) mentioned that to the Messenger of Allah (saw) so he said, "Do (it)" so she did. The Prophet (saw) then got up and gave a speech to people, where he glorified and praised Allah, and said, " What about some people who impose conditions which are not present? Allah's ordinance is more deserving, and Allah's condition is more firm. Verily, the Wala is for the liberator."
copyright law is invalid.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
antiobl,
Ok, lets solve pakistan's problems through Islam since the last 50 something years secularism has failed time and time again.
fatalist,
According to islam :
A'isha (ra) narrated: That Buraira came (to 'A'isha) and said, "I have made a contract of emancipation with my masters for nine ounces (of gold) to be paid in yearly instalments. Therefore, I seek your help." 'A'isha said, "If your masters agree, I will pay them the sum at once and free you on condition that your Wala' (loyalty) will be for me." Buraira went to her masters, but they refused that offer. She (came back) and said, "I presented to them the offer but they refused, unless the Wala' (loyalty) was for them." A'isha (ra) mentioned that to the Messenger of Allah (saw) so he said, "Do (it)" so she did. The Prophet (saw) then got up and gave a speech to people, where he glorified and praised Allah, and said, " What about some people who impose conditions which are not present? Allah's ordinance is more deserving, and Allah's condition is more firm. Verily, the Wala is for the liberator."
copyright law is invalid.
[/QUOTE]
i know that but then what about the fact that we agree to a contract that is false to begin with. if we dont agree with the contract then dont sign/approve it but to disregard is not that easy for me. especialyl when many ulama have said that copyright agreement is a valid agreement..wallah o alam..i remain on the safe side by buying non pirated software inshallah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
antiobl,
Ok, lets solve pakistan's problems through Islam since the last 50 something years secularism has failed time and time again.
......
copyright law is invalid.
[/QUOTE]
Baba! Your Islam is suitable for nomadic tribes. They didn't need to copyright camel dung.
For an industrialized Pakistan with vibrant economy, both local and international laws must be respected. Nobody cares if you achieve that using Islam or Shintoism.
yes it is .. as long as u dont get caught.
now go sleep like a baby.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
The Islamic opinion is that there is no copyright in Islam.
Rights are decided by Allah and not by insaan.
Rights under capitalism generally favour the corporations and not the consumer.
In Islam if you purchase something you are free to use it however you wish.
If there was no copyright law then there would be more competition in the market place and the consumer would be supplied a superior product. There would be no windows blue screen errors :)
Trademarks do apply in Islam. No one is allowed to copy a trade mark of an established company to sell their product.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Once you own it, you can edit it, resell it, distribute it. It's YOUR propert.
Thus, in islam, and inshallah when the khilafah state comes back. All of this will be legal.
Raihan, o bhai saab what is your profession ? kya kartay ho ? what is your job!
stealing software is not a valid argument,
when you go to a doctor you pay him too or is that invalid too ?
antiobl,
so are you suggesting that Islam is not suitable for all ages . Are you saying that Islam cannot solve modern day problems. How can anyone be a Muslim and say this at the same time. Are you a Muslim? or are you also pretending to be a Muslim like some others on this board.
fatalist,
Are you suggesting that I would say that there is copyright in Islam if I was a software programmer? Don't you think I have to meet Allah(swt) on Yawm Al Qiyamah? What will happen to me if I lied about a command from Allah and made Halal what I liked and Haram what I didn't like. Its insulting for you to even suggest this.
Its not stealing according to Islam and I don't see how your doctor analogy applies, maybe you don't understand my daleel.
btw, I am studying computing at uni.
ThandyMazaq,
You're right that we cannot agree to a haram contract which is why the insurance contract and credit card agreement is invalid from Islam. In this case the problem is that conditions are being imposed that are non-existent in Islam.
The question is whether these conditions being imposed are valid from Islam and the answer is no. Since in Islam once you have ownership of something its yours to do whatever you want with it.
Raihan, your argument of "do whatever you want to do with it" is totally ridiculous. Yes, when you buy that property, you can trash it, you can cut into pieces, burn it, swallow it but you cannot redistribute it, resell it, make copies and sell etc. If you don't agree to the EULA (End User License Agreement) then you MUST say "NO" when you install it otherwise you are cheating yourself and us.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Code_Red: *
If our government enforces the law, then doing against it will be a crime *(not sin) punishable according to the country law.
[/QUOTE]
Are you saying Germany does not have "copyright" laws? Are you really sure about it? So does it mean I can buy "SAP" software then modify and resell it? That would definitely be biggest blow to Germany as SAP is the German software giant making billions of dollars annually.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
antiobl,
so are you suggesting that Islam is not suitable for all ages . Are you saying that Islam cannot solve modern day problems. How can anyone be a Muslim and say this at the same time. Are you a Muslim? or are you also pretending to be a Muslim like some others on this board.
fatalist,
Are you suggesting that I would say that there is copyright in Islam if I was a software programmer? Don't you think I have to meet Allah(swt) on Yawm Al Qiyamah? What will happen to me if I lied about a command from Allah and made Halal what I liked and Haram what I didn't like. Its insulting for you to even suggest this.
Its not stealing according to Islam and I don't see how your doctor analogy applies, maybe you don't understand my daleel.
btw, I am studying computing at uni.
ThandyMazaq,
You're right that we cannot agree to a haram contract which is why the insurance contract and credit card agreement is invalid from Islam. In this case the problem is that conditions are being imposed that are non-existent in Islam.
The question is whether these conditions being imposed are valid from Islam and the answer is no. Since in Islam once you have ownership of something its yours to do whatever you want with it.
[/QUOTE]
again going around circles to prove your thievery...when you buy the product - you buy it on certain conditions known as EULA - one of the conditions is that you cannot re-sell it..
when you buy - if the condition is haraam( does not conform to whatever you think Islam says) then why go ahead with purchasing it?
why apply the logic selectively? some people you are....
a simple question to you all....does it not make you cheap using the religion to justify your thievery?
Agree with Bitter.
If the software vendor does not want the buyers to make illegal copies and does that so by a binding EULA agreement then we should abide by the rules, muslim or non-muslim, it does not matter.
In reality, if you purchase software and make illegal copies of it and the vendor finds out then the vendor can take you to court, sue you and will end up winning the case. Even if you dont get caught in this world, finally you will have to face Allah(swt) and what will you tell Him(swt) about this ?
This is quite a simple matter, I dont know why so much energy has been wasted on this simple and obvious matter.
zman, obviously people want to justify their crime and attempt to hide behind religion.
Captain1,
What do you mean ridiculous? Why don't you make the effort to study ownership in Islam since you're not going to believe me.
Pirated software sometimes messes up which is why I use original software not because pirated software is illegal.
We are talking of an Islamic reality where copyright laws would never be implemented and anyway the EULA agreement is not made when you purchase the software only after you try to install it. Since it already belongs to you then how can someone make a contract with you on something you already own? Its like me selling you my computer and after you bought it 'Oh btw you can't use Linux products on it, If you don't agree then you can't use it!'
Using copied software is halal and this is what the discussion is about and as you know halal actions lead to the pleasure of Allah and reward of Jannah.
But your argument is it is bad regardless of what Allah (Swt) says about ownership and about imposing conditions which are not present only because of the loss the corporations will have to face because of it. I must admit thinking of what this means to Bill Gates does bring a tear to my eye :) Poor Bill Gates
Benefit and loss is the capitalist viewpoint on life. The Islamic viewpoint is Halal (gaining the pleasure of Allah) and Haram (something that displeases Allah).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
antiobl,
so are you suggesting that Islam is not suitable for all ages . Are you saying that Islam cannot solve modern day problems. How can anyone be a Muslim and say this at the same time. Are you a Muslim? or are you also pretending to be a Muslim like some others on this board.
.....
[/QUOTE]
hah! First you give fatwa that property theft is halal. Someone tells you stealing is never kosher. So you turn around and give second fatwa proving the challenger to be non-Muslim.
No wonder Arrabobs are in deep $hite. They are following Muftis like you.
Messenger pbuh was the most honest, most trustworthy, and most tolerant person. Now people grow foot-long beard, do all the dirty deeds and declare themselves Syeds and Muftis.
Raihan, if your country has the "copyright" law, would you still say that it is "halal" to use copied software?
Br Raihan, please bring the fatwa that makes copy righting illegal.
In a court of law this is equivalent to breaking the law of the land, i.e., in the USA and I dont think any scholar of Islam would encourage you to break any laws. Us muslims, being the ummah of Mohammed(SAW) are the best, so we should practise and preach highest forms of morality.
antiobl,
RasulAllah(saw) didn't tolerate the people worshipping idols(religion
), burying of daughters alive(custom), cheating in the marketplace, overcharging people on pilgrimage(economy), ruling by other than Islam(politics)
you have failed to declare yourself a Muslim and have failed to prove it is theft and have failed to answer my question.
Is Islam not suitable for all ages?
Captain1,
Laws of the land are not higher than the laws of Allah(swt) and just because we don't respect laws of the land it doesn't mean we start breaking them just because they are unIslamic.
Br zman,
No one would say break the laws of the land just because they are not from Islam. We don't steal, lie, cheat, murder. Its just that we avoid interest and other haram actions, even by some freak chance we have to pay ( not reading smallprint) we still refuse. We don't accept money if the state allows it but Allah(swt) doesn't , such as interest.
It is not possible to have complete iman and the heart of a Muslim will not feel tranquil until we are ruled by Islam.
I would avoid using copied software because the judge will not respect the laws of Allah(swt) not because we see it as haram as islam allows copying software. It is not theft in Islam.
I did post an article about it but the admin removed it. I don't understand why. We're a non-violent Islamic political party, I don't know what they have against us. Our founders books are still taught at Al-Azhar. Anyway I don't hold it against them they still let me write what I want to write even if they edit the B into M in Musharraf. :)
Even if I produced a fatwa it doesn't mean you are obliged to follow it. You have to be convinced of it before you can follow it.
Its better to understand ownership in Islam and I suggest you read up on it. I suggest the Economic system in Islam by Taqiuddin An-Nabhani , I would link directly but then it would be removed so try google.