Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

Saddam is a tyrant and a dictator. He rules over Muslim people. It is the duty of other Muslims to remove this tyrant and help their Muslim brothers suffereing under his rule.

Yet we see Muslim nations remain quiet about this. And Muslism have to rely on the West to free them. Is this not shameful? Have Muslim leaders no shame?

We so protests against thsoe who are trying to remove the tyrant, but no one is protesting against the tyrant.

Same thing happened in Kosova, when Milosovich butchered Muslism and the Europeans and Arabs sat silent on the sideline debating what to do next in UN. Only America went in after Milosovich without waiting for any long drawn out UN debate. Why was it ok then, and not ok now?

These are my thoughts on the issue.

Silence.........

Misleading views of American Politicians about the use of force against Iraq

Aug 8, 2002

On the CBS “Face the Nation” program, Democrat Carl Levin, Republican Chuck Hagel und Brent Scowcroft , the chairman of the Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, all amazingly argued for a cautious approach in dealing with Iraq!!!. Levin argued that Saddam Hussein is unlikely to initiate an attack with weapons of mass destruction and that containment policy was effective against Soviet Union and North Korea, and with this implying that it is effective against Iraq!!

… And why I will not](... And why I will not | Dr B Khalaf | The Guardian)

Dr B Khalaf
Friday February 14, 2003
The Guardian

I write this to protest against all those people who oppose the war against Saddam Hussein, or as they call it, the “war against Iraq”. I am an Iraqi doctor, I worked in the Iraqi army for six years during Iraq-Iran war and four months during Gulf war. All my family still live in Iraq. I am an Arab Sunni, not Kurdish or Shia. I am an ordinary Iraqi not involved with the Iraqi opposition outside Iraq.

Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
We so protests against thsoe who are trying to remove the tyrant, but no one is protesting against the tyrant.

[/QUOTE]

Nobody is protesting in favor of this tyrant, but rather on the fact that removing saddam is not worth half a million lives of innocent people, which is so often benignly put as "collateral damage".

You must mean the same silence that the international community routinely exhibits with documents such as this one.

Re: Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by seeker: *
Nobody is protesting in favor of this tyrant, but rather on the fact that removing saddam is not worth half a million lives of innocent people, which is so often benignly put as "collateral damage".
[/QUOTE]
Half a million? Where did you get that number? And I would argue it is worth the return of normalcy to Iraq. Saddam has killed more people then Gulf War I and II combined.

Nadia, you know well enough that had Saddam not invaded Kuwait and attcked like a usual dictator, their would no sanctions or needless deaths. The fault is his and removing him as quickly as possible will save the most number of Iraqi lives.

The only way to end sanctions is to get rid of Saddam as per the agreements after the Gulf War. If you care for Iraqi people so much, you will support this war.

Re: Re: Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

Imdad, did this six month old baby get to vote on whether or not his country should invade Kuwait in August 1990?

[thumb=B]01-04big.JPG[/thumb]
Incase you are wondering why that lady sitting next to him is crying - it’s because the doctors had just disconnected Hassan’s air tube from a canister of industrial grade oxygen. The canister was empty at any rate, as most canisters in Iraq happen to be thanks to the sanctions imposed by the government whose policies you are so fond of endorsing. Not surprisingly, Hassan died. The lady who is sitting there crying, happens to be his mother.

So one more time for my sake, please - was six month old Hassan given a vote regarding whether or not Iraq should invade Kuwait? Did Hassan, and do the millions of children like him in that country, have any influence upon the actions of Saddam Hussein?

If you believe that it is justifed that we invade another country which will result in the almost certain deaths - murders - of babies like Hassan, and mothers like this one, then i think our conversation is moot. There is absolutely no way either of us will budge from our respective positions.

well why were the muslims and the pro democracy west supporting saddam when he was fighting iran? why were the same people silent when he was gasing his opponents?
its the west that creates oppressive regimes and dictators muslim masses have very little choice
what happened in algeria? the military regime canceleed the elections which the islamist were poised to win what was the west reaction? what did not they impose nigeria type sanctions?
8 out 10 people are fools

Imdad Ali,

"Saddam is a tyrant and a dictator. He rules over Muslim people. It is the duty of other Muslims to remove this tyrant and help their Muslim brothers suffereing under his rule."

Congratualtions, you get it. This is not about terrorism. It is not about weapons inspectors. It is not about a threat to the US.

The situation of Saddam is unique. With WMD he can hold off virtually all armies in the world. With oil wealth he can reconstitute his regime as soon as sanctions are lifted. The lesson in all this is that once a dictator obtains WMD, if he is ruthless enough he can rule forever, and has nothing to fear from the international community.

Saddam was given the chance to be another Qaddafi, and to pacify and to rejoin the world community. Hopefully the next time, the world will act in unison.

All that is left now is a prayer that this war will be quick and merciful.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
There is absolutely no way either of us will budge from our respective positions.
[/QUOTE]

That just shows your stubbornness and knee-jerk anti-Americanism. Nothing less, nothing more.

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Actions have consequences. Saddam must now live with the consequences of his actions. Saddam could have gone into exile long ago if he cared about his people. He still can to avoid war.

Did Saddam care for the Kurds when he gassed them? Where those children any different? Did they not suffer and die? You are refusing to see who is responsible for the actions that have led to the current situation. No, it is not the innocent children or citizens of Iraq. It is Saddam. The Muslim world should have removed Saddam by now, but as usual they have failed and America must clean up the act.

Sometimes war is needs to protect more innocents from dieing. This is the way our world works.

March 17, 2003 E-mail story Print

COMMENTARY
‘They Don’t Speak for Me’
An Iraqi refugee says stars who decry action against Hussein prolong the abuse of a people

  Times Headlines  

Still No Equal Justice for Poor

Beneath the Green, a Past of Pain

‘They Don’t Speak for Me’

A Celebrity, but First a Citizen

Muskets and Nukes: the Patterns of Proliferation

more >

OPINION

By Esra Naama, Esra Naama of San Diego is a member of Women for a Free Iraq. Web site: www.womenforiraq.org.

I am a refugee from Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

When Martin Sheen, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon and Barbra Streisand speak about the Iraqi people, they are not speaking about people like me, who are Shiite Muslims – the largest religious group in Iraq that is nonetheless forced to live as second-class citizens under the Sunni regime of Hussein and his Baath Party.

When I was 10, I fled Iraq with my mother and four siblings after the failure of the 1991 uprising against Hussein. My father, a former Iraqi army colonel, was one of the leaders of the uprising and helped organize the resistance forces that fought against Hussein. As a pharmacist with knowledge of military bases in the southern part of Iraq, he took crates of medicine and supplies from army hospitals to the local civilian hospitals. And he attacked every vestige of Hussein’s control in my hometown of Al-Diwaniya; he tore down posters of Hussein and restored the old names on the hospitals and public buildings that had been named for Hussein.

At that time, we believed that the coalition forces would come to our assistance. But within a few short days, Hussein brutally crushed us. In the months that followed, tens of thousands of my fellow Shiite Muslims were executed. Entire families were killed. Bodies were left to hang on trees and men were tortured in public. These are the scenes that I relive in my nightmares.

My father went into hiding to escape execution. My mother had no idea whether he was dead or alive. She knew that if Hussein’s security forces could not find him, they would come after her children, and we would be imprisoned and tortured to lure my father out of hiding. When they took away my 18-year-old cousin, my mother decided we had to leave. We set off on a long journey, moving to new safe houses every night, until we finally reached the Rafha refugee camp in Saudi Arabia. The camp embodied all the indifference and cruelty with which Arab dictatorships treat their people. We stayed there for nearly two years. We were lucky.

Eventually, my father found his way to the same camp and we were blessed to receive refugee status in the United States on Sept. 17, 1992. My family celebrates this date as our new birthday, the day that we were able to begin our lives as full human beings, with dignity and hope. Growing up in the United States, I often thought about the people we left behind. We lost three relatives. My best friend’s father, an army general, was executed for unknown reasons. I have friends who have lost 50 relatives.

Like many others, I am dedicated to ending the suffering of the Iraqi people. They are prisoners in their own land and they yearn for freedom and the simple things that we take for granted – democracy, freedom of speech, the right to vote. America is their model for the future of Iraq, if only America and the world would help them build it.

I am an American now, and I have been educated to respect the right to free expression by any citizen, a right no member of my family enjoyed when we lived in Iraq. I know from personal experience that the Hollywood actors who decry action against Hussein are really opposing the liberation of the Iraqi people. I wish they would praise the American troops in the field or just stay silent.

There is only one measure of comfort to be found in their statements: When Iraq is finally liberated, these actors will learn that they have never spoken for the people of Iraq.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Sometimes war is needs to protect more innocents from dieing. This is the way our world works.
[/QUOTE]

With all due respect to your self, Imdad, please save me the philosophy lectures. It is simply irrational to argue that in order to wage peace, one must wage war - don't you see the transparent oxymoron in your sentence ? It is similar to stating that it is necessary for one to lie in order to tell the truth.

To some, the "innocents" may simply be Iraqis born in the wrong country at the wrong period of time. Please do not forget, however, that they are still human beings who laugh, cry, joke, bleed just like yourself and myself. This is not the way that our "world" works - this is the manner in which two select countries have decided for themselves how to dominate the world. The "world" is comprised of vastly more than two select countries, intent upon committing an illegal invasion.

If nothing else, please think again about how many children you are willing to write off as "collateral damage".

Nadia, should the allies have not bombed Germany even though children would die?

sure man, the duty is to help mulims in suffering, whether theya re being oppressed by on muslims or by muslims.

so lets take out saddam, and then focus on the psycho ayotollah this and thats in Iran and then the sheikh fulana and king dhamaaka in all this middle east countries.

good idea.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
If nothing else, please think again about how many children you are willing to write off as "collateral damage".
[/QUOTE]

It makes more sense to think about the fat, nourished, laughing, happy, productive children that will live in a post-Saddam Iraq. In opposing the present action, you are writing off the 25% of Iraqi children who are currently malnurished and at risk as collateral damage to a dictatorial, murdering, lunatic, tyrant.

The Iranians are documenting about 140 victims of Saddam a month. Who knows how many they are missing. This is what Iraqi children could look forward to:

Bland words, vivid images wait to nail Saddam’s crimes
March 18 2003

A nondescript building houses the documents that trace the repression of Saddam Hussein’s regime. Russell Skelton reports from Tehran.

The document was bland and bureaucratic. The yellowed pages listed the names of 500 deserters from the Iraqi army. Beneath the names was a faded signature, a date and the crude official stamp of a general.

For opponents of Saddam Hussein, 1991 was the worst of years. What started out as a mass uprising against the dictator by Iraqis in 14 provinces ended in the systematic slaughter of thousands.

For the hapless soldiers named in the document, punishment for switching sides was a bullet in the head.

The document I was shown told nothing of the horror, the pervasive fear of the deserters’ last moments. It did not reveal that the men were tortured and tormented. It did not describe how they were kicked, repeatedly beaten with rifle butts and summarily executed with a single round from a pistol.

That part was caught on video filmed by the executioners themselves, apparently unable to resist recording their presidential work. The footage, smuggled to Iran by a high-ranking defector, makes for shocking viewing. Men pleading for their lives, men with broken arms and men being beaten. President Saddam’s totalitarian state uncut.

“We have collected thousands of these documents,” said Mr al-Huoseyni, the softly spoken archivist at the Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq.

“Each day defectors bring us more material and each day we authenticate it and record the victims of Saddam Hussein. There are thousands of names. The people who died in the uprising, the Kurds who were gassed, the political prisoners who were tortured and murdered,” he said.

Mr al-Huoseyni works in a five-storey building in Tehran that serves as a focal point for many of the 250,000 Iraqis living in exile in Iran. It is here they come to report the crimes of the Saddam regime and establish the fate of missing friends and relatives. It is here that each alleged crime is meticulously recorded in grim detail for the day when President Saddam and his generals face the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

In one large room the walls are covered by ceiling-high shelves holding thousands of files. They are categorised: executions, torture, victims of chemical warfare and the murdered women and children.

“We have records of 600,000 executions and we estimate that 180,000 died in the uprising including the Marsh Arabs. The bombing of Halabja left 5000 dead,” Mr al-Huoseyni said.

There is a propagandist flavour to this archive of horrors. Horrific pictures of mutilated bodies have been stuck on to picture boards, turned into instant posters.

There are more disturbing videos from a hospital ward inside Iraq of torn-off limbs, people in panic, two little boys clutching their dead father, whom they believe is still alive. It is all intended to persuade, and it does.

For all his work Mr al-Huoseyni is not optimistic President Saddam will be brought to account. “Saddam will be killed before that happens. He will be killed by members of his own clan before the US soldiers get to him. The clan hates him, they will make sure they get him first.”

The centre has gathered evidence showing that President Saddam turned on his family when some of them tried to leave Iraq. “Some have never been seen since,” he said.

Mr al-Huoseyni was working in the oil industry when he fled to Iran four years ago after learning he was being watched by the secret police. He declines to say why he was targeted because he does not want to endanger his family.

Each month the centre issues a bulletin in Arabic on Iraq’s victims compiled from information from defectors, refugees and informants inside Iraq. The figures have been running at around 140 a month.

UTD, one slight difference - this time around, we actually had UN weapons inspectors inside Iraq, trying to fulfil their mandates i.e., trying to ensure Iraq disarms.

MyVoice, Any word on why those “25%” of Iraqi children are currently malnourished?

This is something else the Iraqi children can look forward to, i am sure, while they experience the glorious benefits of being liberated: US to use depleted uranium.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
**MyVoice
*, Any word on why those "25%" of Iraqi children are currently malnourished?
[/QUOTE]

In a word: Saddam.

In three words: Saddam and appeasement.

Now, maybe you can tell me how many of those children would be fed by continuing sanctions and weapons inspections. I haven't seen Hans Blix giving them any cupcakes.

Re: Is it not the duty of the Muslim world to remove a tyrant from Muslim lands?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Saddam is a tyrant and a dictator. He rules over Muslim people. It is the duty of other Muslims to remove this tyrant and help their Muslim brothers suffereing under his rule.

Yet we see Muslim nations remain quiet about this. And Muslism have to rely on the West to free them. Is this not shameful? Have Muslim leaders no shame?

We so protests against thsoe who are trying to remove the tyrant, but no one is protesting against the tyrant.

Same thing happened in Kosova, when Milosovich butchered Muslism and the Europeans and Arabs sat silent on the sideline debating what to do next in UN. Only America went in after Milosovich without waiting for any long drawn out UN debate. Why was it ok then, and not ok now?

These are my thoughts on the issue.
[/QUOTE]

Then we should wipe out the entrie Middle East and Muslim world of its leaders, cause most of them are in the same boat as Saddam!