Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I don’t know how much you know about history of India bro!

**Those who croak about Indian democracy, fail to see that the same democrazy was responsible for the very division of British India. **

Indian democratic system didn’t start in 1947. Rather it was a ditto copy of British rule, faithfully carried along by British-founded Congress of India party.

Even now the democratic system adopted by Indians does not allow state rights, and Indian military has been in action for the last 60 years suppressing the voices of dissent.

Indian model of democarzy is only good when a single group in this case nationalist Hindu Brahmins are the absolute dominant force.

This type of system is terrible for Pakistan, as the politicians have been able to easily fragment our country. 100s of parties loyal to absolute feudals with no coherent structure can only survive in few countries where nationalism and loyalty to the center takes precedence to the regional loyalties. We had hope that MQM as a party of educated elite will be different. Heck this party became the same feudalistic fiefdom as many others.

Look at Sri Lanka. Tamil Hindus were so easily doped by their political leaders and now this gem of a country with highest literacy rate in the region is a playground of Hindu suicide bombers.

It will be wise if Pakistan quits following this highly divisive and totally unstable method of governance.

It so ironic people!

That we don’t want to put a single seed of true democratic means and yet hope that some how Jesus Elaihe Salaam will come give us the long awaited democratic system.

Our political parties (just like India’s) are cesspools of personality cults, jaagirs, and fiefdoms. These cesspools have long ago killed the hope of any stable system in Pakistan.

Democracy as preached and followed in Pakistan is dead on arrival. And you can never revive the dead horse, no matter how long you beat it.

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe…

Actually India was a democracy (actually a Republic) under many Indian Empires in history. During the ages of the Mahajapanadas, there were many republics, famous one comes to mind is Kalinga.

It is Muslims who have historically been under Sultans, Amirs, and Khalifs. Indians have had multiple systems, and still do today. I heard Kerala State is Communist while another state is Capitalist. India is a federal republic.

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe...

^^ great answer to people alike pp and Where was their democracy when Muslims were masscare, killed like flys. Where is their Indian democracy when organization like rss or else blow up the buses. Indian army is doing full scale war like operation in half of their country. Pathetic democracy.

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe...

Bad things can happen to good people in any country or system.

Major problem with "modern British-Indian" democracy is that it fragmants the country along ethnic, racial, and religious lines.

And in fact that's exactly what happened in 1947, when the Indian democratic system resulted in the division of the country along religious/ethnic lines.

Even after 1947, the process of fragmentation continues with bloody uprisings in the West and in the East.

The reason is simple. British-Indian democratic system is like driver-less buss speeding through streets filled with pedestrians, or zooming over the mountain-side curved roads. One mistake and kaboom.

This terrible system produces 100s of parties with zero internal democracy. These parties do not believe in democracy at all. Instead they are the personal property of one dynasty or the other.

Had India not blessed by the British-modeled army, and a strong Hindu-Indi nationalism, it would have gone the You-goslavia, He-goslavia, she-goslavia, and there-goes-slavia continuing the "gloden" democratic traditions of 1947.

Bro lets not dope people using this Kalinga-ns theories.

We are talking about current day British-given-democratic-party-system in India. And yes this system did result in the division of British-India.

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe...

and also in linguistic lines. and what's wrong in it?...in the process it is helping every group of people to keep their own identity and preserve what is theirs. The moment one set of culture/language/ethnicity/religion is imposed on others, people will start fighting even more.

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And in fact that's exactly what happened in 1947, when the Indian democratic system resulted in the division of the country along religious/ethnic lines.
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It is not india democracy which divides people. It is people who are dividing themselves. Even if they do divide themselves to a certain extent(as long as they don't fight), what's wrong in it if it is about preserving their own language and culture?

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Even after 1947, the process of fragmentation continues with bloody uprisings in the West and in the East.
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and you cannot blame that on democracy. It is because of the leaders. and even those uprisings are completely gone in certain cases. Then you should give credit to democracy for this if you can quote it as a reason for loopholes.

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The reason is simple. British-Indian democratic system is like driver-less buss speeding through streets filled with pedestrians, or zooming over the mountain-side curved roads. One mistake and kaboom.

This terrible system produces 100s of parties with zero internal democracy. These parties do not believe in democracy at all. Instead they are the personal property of one dynasty or the other.
[/quote]
Your country also has multi party system. Dare to bring just 2 party system in your country, then your country could be in chaos. How about merging punjabi nawaz sharif party with muhajir MQM?..some people will end up feeling that they are not being represented going by the diversity of people that is there.

[quote]
Had India not blessed by the British-modeled army, and a strong Hindu-Indi nationalism, it would have gone the You-goslavia, He-goslavia, she-goslavia, and there-goes-slavia continuing the "gloden" democratic traditions of 1947.

[/quote]
After all even pakistan was ruled by the british....then how is pak army modelled?...Inspite of being ruled by the british, instead of continuiing with a model which was already working, why adopt some other if at all some other was adopted??....and even pakistan was formed with strong muslim based nationalism, waaaay more stronger than hindu nationalism.

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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

Thanks to Ravage, this is now a separate thread.

I wish ravage bro had opted for a slightly different title

"Is British-Indian political party system good for Pakistan too?"

I think democracy is a much abused or overused term and everyone takes liberty to bend this poor thang in their own way.

There can never be any qualms against a good functioning "democracy" that leads to a country's stability and prosperity.

Unfortunately the British-Indian model is terrible for a region steeped in ancient rivalries, ethnicities, races, and religions.

The result of using British-Indian model of parties in a blind way, was pretty obvious even before 1947.

Congress of India dug its heals down and refused to accommodate Muslim League. Party agenda for Congress was more important that the unity of the country.

We are seeing the same thing in Pakistan (and India) 60 years after the fateful year of 1947.

Parties are stuck to their guns with zero compromise, and no sense of democracy. They are wedded to their dynasties instead of upholding the basic tenants of a democratic system.

Look at this guys! 1 billion people of India cannot provide a non-Gandhi "owner" of the Congess.

160 million BDeshis are stuck with Mujib dynasty.

And

165 million Pakistanis were just forced to give their biggest party to none other than a teenager.

What a sham way to achieve political awareness. What a sham!

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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

^ that makes no sense at all. Whole world agrees and is awe struck about how well Indian democracy has worked. I am awe struck how well it has worked. We have infinitely more religious sects, poverty and class differences than most other countries and yet India is progressing and seen as such. Why is that? Democracy combined with the intrinsic sathvig nature of Indians. The advancement of India is not even a subject of controversy any more and anybody questioning or doubting that is just a fool.

How is Gandhi heading the Congress party to do with lack of democracy? Is it so strange that doctor's son becomes doc, lawyer's son becomes lawyer? Now if that happens without other leaders emerging you may have a claim, but that is not the case. How many people within Comgress do you want who can take over today or tomorrow? There's a bunch. Or in the opposition party.

You have a right to feel bitter about the state of Pakistani politics and government but that is not going to get any better by showing envious disrespect to the miracle that is India

Jai Bharath!

Sri Rama Jayam!

~**~ Tussi Baray ----- Ho ~~~~ ~**~
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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

:uz:

One pill doesn’t cure all. Keep your indo-patriot, anti-pak thoughts to yourself. Thank you.

Pakistan will regain its identity, in its own way, because the wishes of the people will sooner or later be fulfilled. It just requires the public to finally snap out of hybernation and take control of the nation that belongs to them, not just some crook politicians, and until that happens. The cycle will continue to repeat.

~**~ Tussi Baray ----- Ho ~~~~ ~**~
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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

Dude, you are toooo proud of your country and people. come down to earth!(no hard feelings)

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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

I agree one pill doesn’t cure all ills and have NO anti-pak thoughts. Why do you think that? I was simply responding to burkaposhq taking potshots at India (eg 1 billion people …Gandhi etc).

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe...

LOL... Reread your history...

Lets not make the mistake of bringing up pointless nonsense to to justify blind support for a buffon president.

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

Spare me your long rambling inane responses...

Pak inherited the SAME system from the British. Te difference was that India had wiser leaders then Pak...

And I dont think you know very much about India. Indian states are very independant... If you dont believe me, ask some the Indian guppies.
They know far more about India then you or I do.

Fact of the matter is, regardless of how its functioning, India democracy is still a world recognized democracy. Its considered to be on par with most developed countries in terms of democratic governace. Try and refute that please...

And I dont care about the effectiveness of India democracy, but the fact remains that they are a far more stable country with far far far more cohesion then Pakistan... Unlike in Pak where three out of four provinces have major nationlist sentiment, Indians are proud Indians up and down the country.

So if your going to counter a statment, then do it with actual facts and stop trying to undermine the actual acomplishments of others just to bolster your own pointless argument.

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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

The reason I cited India was not to highlight problems with Indias democratic system... Problems are there in every democracy including America...

The point was that despite it all, India DID become a democracy within 60 years of its independance... Pakistan came a day earlier and are still struggling to figure out local govt.

Mush seems to have forgotten this little tid bit.

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Re: Musharaf Disgracing Pak in Europe...

Again, the point is not to debate the nature of Indias democracy, but the simple fact that it became a democracy in 60 years...

This contradicts Mush who claims that 60 years is not long enough to develop a democracy in Pakistan...

If you actually read the statment instead of getting emotional, you would get that.

;) Choose A Profession 4 Above Person ;)
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Re: Is India a good Democratic model for Pakistan [split: Musharaf Disgracing Pak]

Crasy bro!

Jai Bharath!

Sri Rama Jayam! And jai Bhagwan! :)

I hope that clears up any misconceptions about "anti-India" bias in an otherwise academic discussion.

Bro! you are making the same mistake (as ^^ ssingh) by confusing "democracy" with "British-Indian political party system" (BrIPPS).

BrIPPS may appear to be a perfect system for India in post 1947 but in reality it has wrecked havoc in the region. Why you may ask?

BrIPPS was the primary reason for division of British-Indian subcontinent in 1947.

The same dilapidated, mangled, plagiarized of a party system was then responsible for division of Pakistan.

You may ask then why India didn't suffer from BrIPPS infected divisions after 1947?

Well part answer to this question shows up in your very post as strong even maddening level of Indian nationalism (Jai Bharath! again!), and part answer is the ruthless use of British-Indian military on the divisive movements in post-1947 India.

We in Pakistan lack the same level of nationalism as you Indians, and thus end up using only the British-Pakistani military to suppress the divisive movements in Pakistan.

In summary:

BriPPS sans nationalism leads to fragmantation along ethnic, racial, and religious lines. I hope you understand it now.

Jai Bharath!
Jai Pakistan!

Sri Rama Jayam! jai Bhagwan! And Jai Allah (Jai God, Jai Guru, Jai Bhuddah ................ etc. ) :)

p.s. I'll suggest few alternatives to BrIPPS in a separate post.
pps. Goras love BriPPS because they feel satisfied that even when Goras left Indians, Indians never left Goras. :)